Pinnacle Air Services

[MNR]

Just more information:

Per diem debit cards are not going to happen.

Instead they will be direct depositing per deim amounts weekly into the same account you have your paycheck direct deposited. If you don't have your paycheck direct deposited then you will get a check each week.

$141 and $226 will be paid for overnights. $45 and $58 will be paid for day trips. assumeing they do this for both sides that would mean no more $10 per meal period just the day rate instead, a good thing. They have not clarified if the meal rate will be paid on the last day of a multiple day trip. My guess is it will. Sounds good on paper but I will reserve judgement until I get to use it for a while.

 

[Dave J]

Starcheck. Like slick said. There are blank receipts in each bag.

Date:
Location:
Trip Number:
Amount:
Reason:

Pretty simple. For actual receipts you receive you would put the same info as above on the receipt.

Dave. You gonna eat BBQ at the joint at the end of Main Street there in ASE?

J. Congrats on the new rug rat and yea had that for lunch yesterday

 

[Dave J]

Just more information:

Per diem debit cards are not going to happen.

Instead they will be direct depositing per deim amounts weekly into the same account you have your paycheck direct deposited. If you don't have your paycheck direct deposited then you will get a check each week.

$141 and $226 will be paid for overnights. $45 and $58 will be paid for day trips. assumeing they do this for both sides that would mean no more $10 per meal period just the day rate instead, a good thing. They have not clarified if the meal rate will be paid on the last day of a multiple day trip. My guess is it will. Sounds good on paper but I will reserve judgement until I get to use it for a while.

I hope you are correct on the direct deposit we have been asking why this has never happend and was given the answer. "It is because pay checks and per diem checks come from two seperate banks" I did notice a change in my last pay stub so maybe this has been or is being addressed. It would be even a greater plus if we get that last day meal. It is something that didn't make any sence as to why not but for most of us on the road it just wasn't worth the effort to try and bring it up because we knew we would be ahead at the end of the rotation and would just wash the one day through the 15 days out.

 

[Dave J]

And for those who a curious as to where the 141 and 226 are derived from here is the link http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1542.pdf The company uses table 2. It makes sence to use that table with the number of pilots it is easier to keep track of just a high and low instead of all the different rates in each city. These per diem numbers may change Oct 1 that is the new release date last year the high rate went up from 198 to 226. Just remember this is the maximum the gov allows to be paid out for tax purposes the company has choosen to pay us this max nothing says they have too.

 

[JJET44]

For the LAST TIME: 99.9% of the time there is no money of your own that you will be spending. You get an initial cash advance, the company credit card carried by the captain or the captains petty cash. The End.

We understand what your saying. We haven't used your per-deim system yet.

BUT

The fact remains that we can add.

The average FBO price for a Hampton Inn is $99+ tax (average low perdiem city). Tax could be anywhere from $10 -$20= $109- $119. The most you can spend on a hotel with the PCL system is $105 w/tax to get the IRS's $36 for food.

It dosen't add up unless there is one inportant fact that we're missing and in that case please let us know.

Oh BTW you have to spend a little money to make money.
Many of us JR guys are shopping around for the best fuel prices to minimize costs.
We will tanker fuel into a city with high fuel prices or take a l;ittle to wave ramp fees even if we don't need it.
Some of the pilots might not be so willing to spend the extra time on their cell phone's calling ahead if QOL goes down.

This BTW isn't a threat, it's a historical fact in aviation
A happy pilot is a cost effective employee!

 

[starcheckdriver]

The average FBO price for a Hampton Inn is $99+ tax (average low perdiem city). Tax could be anywhere from $10 -$20= $109- $119. The most you can spend on a hotel with the PCL system is $105 w/tax to get the IRS's $36 for food.

Actually, the IRS rate for food in a low city is $45. So to get that, you can only spend $96 on a hotel after taxes. That means you need to find a hotel with a rate of $85 or less. Good Luck unless you are a Days Inn or La Quinta type of guy/gal.

I am not trying to sound snobby or bitchy, but part of the reason pilots tend to stay in decent hotels is beacause that is the trade off for being on the road when you are working. And, I am not talking about the Ritz Carlton. I would venture to say most Jetride pilots are okay with the Holiday Inn, Crown Plaza, Hampton Inn, Marriott chains, and of course, Hilton Family hotels. But, I doubt many cities will offer these hotels for less than $85 a night.

The other issue with this system is that the burden of making lodging arrangements lies with the crew rather than Dispatch. This is a problem for me, especially on an ASAP trip or a late night trip. The last thing I want to do when I get to the destination late at night or in good time after a 12-14 hour duty day is try to search the internet to find a deal that falls within my per diem guidelines.

I thought the system we have now was great! $36 for low cities, $45 for high cities and Dispatch takes care of the lodging. If they cannot book a hotel then the destination FBO would do it and the average rate was $90-$100 a night in a decent hotel. My opinion is, "if it ain't broke, why fix it?!"

 

[starcheckdriver]

Just remember this is the maximum the gov allows to be paid out for tax purposes the company has choosen to pay us this max nothing says they have too.

This is not meant to be an attack or to be negative in any way towards Pinnacle or their pilots, but I am curious....

Reading the last 100 posts in this thread, it seems that Jetride guys are stating opinions and policies that would better the QOL for the Pinnacle pilots. Someone defended the $100 a day overtime rate several posts ago. We are just trying to make sure the rate stays at $250 and $300 for SICs and PICs, respectivly. Wouldn't that be better than $100 a day?

Why are you defending the fact they pay the max per diem allowed? Why should it be acceptable for them to pay any less? If we are trying to get a policy that keeps the pilots in nice hotels and still pays a good meal rate, why would you argue with that?

 

[macpilot]

If anyone has done the math...

If Pa adopted Jr's salary, perdiem, overtime pay and 2 week on call/ 1 hard off schedule

Or, If JR adobted Pa's salary, perdiem, (imposible to adopt our 2 week on/off) and overtime pay

Or any combination their of,

would the both companies pilots take home pay be the same? It seems to me that it would be about the same or jet ride would be slightly ahead.

Am I making sence or completely missing the subjecet?

 

[Dave J]

In my opinion and being that I have done it both ways with this company I like this per diem structer better it is worth the little extra work for me to make the extra cash. I am sure we all would like to see an increase in day off pay but we don't often get called out on are day off so it isn't as big of an issue at least with the guys on the road.

It was not a defense as to weather or not they should pay us the max. I was makeing a point that they have done this and if it goes up again this Oct 1st hopefulley they will again match the max.

This not dirrected at any body but just some info from someone who has been around here pre-midonnas and winers have not done very well or lasted at this company in the past.

 

[starcheckdriver]

If anyone has done the math...

If Pa adopted Jr's salary, perdiem, overtime pay and 2 week on call/ 1 hard off schedule

Or, If JR adobted Pa's salary, perdiem, (imposible to adopt our 2 week on/off) and overtime pay

Or any combination their of,

would the both companies pilots take home pay be the same? It seems to me that it would be about the same or jet ride would be slightly ahead.

Am I making sence or completely missing the subjecet?

I guess this is the problem. The Jetride pilots (at least several I spoke with)were under the assumption that the Pinnacle pilots were getting pay raises to match the JR pilot salaries. Is this not the case? Most pilots at Jetride break even on the meal allowance ($36 a day) and therefore do not add per diem as part of the salary or take home pay. Based on the above post, I assume PA pilots are adding per diem into their salary when they figure out take home pay amounts.

You cannot really do the math on either system because in order to benefit from Pinnacle's per diem structure, one must stay in a hotel that is less than $85 a night before taxes. Jetride Dispatch and JR pilots routinely book hotels that are $90-$100 a night before taxes. If we continued that practice on Pinnacle's per diem structure, we would lose money, or starve to break even.

I think the point of many JR pilots is that they don't want a change in QOL while on the road with this new system, i.e. they don't want to stay in lesser quality hotels than we do now, and they don't want any less money for meals than we get now. I also think a lot of them don't want the hassle of making their own reservations at hotels and having to charge those bills to a personal credit card.

Now, what I would like to know to simplify the argument is this....

If JR pilots are staying in Holiday Inns, Crowne Plazas, Marriott chains, and Hilton chains for an average of $90-$100 ($105-$120 after taxes) a night before taxes, how would one break even or come out ahead on $141 a night? At that per diem rate it leaves $21-$36 a day for food which is hardly enough. Any less than $36 a day and you are hard pressed to break even, let alone come out ahead.

According to the IRS tables, on this system, we should be spending no more than $96 a night (after taxes) on hotels. That doesn't leave much wiggle room. It remains a fact that in order to do this, one must find a hotel with a nightly rate of $85 or less to get the full $45 IRS meal allowance. I spoke with a couple FBOs this week regarding rates that they have (in PBI), and not one has a rate less than $95 a night with local hotels.

The internet didn't produce anything better. I found three hotels with shuttle service and restaurants nearby (requirements in my opinion, unless the company pays for a rental car) that were $80-$85 a night.....Days Inn, La Quinta and Red Roof Inn. All crappy hotels in this area. Trust me, the $99 a night Marriott we are in now is nothing to write home about.

In any case, I don't see how the math adds up. Maybe I am missing something. I wish a PA pilot could give a detailed example of a common destination like TEB, APA, PBI, LAX, etc.