Pinnacle 1113 ruling set for this Thursday

[Flyer1015]

MonsterBuch,

I can assure you I have only one username. No way I'm wasting 10 bucks on a second one. From your profile it seems you are a Delta pilot, who were the ones that killed the flowthrough in the first place!!!!!!! Ask yourself, or your DALPA leaders, why not continue the flowthrough with Mesaba and Compass? Sure, they were no longer wholly owned when spun off to Pinnacle Corp and TSA Holdings. But still. DALPA and DAL management still managed to secure a flowDOWN provision in which even after all Compass guys flow up, Delta pilots can still flowback years later if they lose their Delta pilot job.

But why no flowthrough.... and you know it. Delta pilots (and management) want to control WHO they hire. By having a flowthrough, you have zero chance of controlling who you hire, and that's precisely what YOUR pilot group wanted to avoid. Lets be honest, the flow is for the senior guys. The first couple hundred at Mesaba. And you know most of them are either content and never wanted to leave Mesaba, or were rejected from interviews and are now stuck. In either case, your pilot group doesn't want to sign off on lifers and give them a flowthrough. So before you judge me and cast me off, at least acknowledge that what I said is precisely why your pilot group dosen't want an automatic flow. They want a chance to choose a pilot, and weed out the bad ones.

 

[Flyer1015]

The vast majority of those senior (mesaba at least) may have had personal reasons for staying (can you blame a guy for being happily employed with decent pay while being based at home?)

Correct. And I wrote: "The lifers had their chance to go to northwest or delta in the 80s, 90s, and 00s. They chose to stay for their own personal reasons."

I'm agreeing with you, so what's the confusion?

or had just been not had the good fortune to get through a hiring process.

Correct, I said "portion have interviewed elsewhere and been turned down."

Again, in agreement. Just using different words, we're saying the same thing.

I would like to add that I know a number of senior line check Airmen and instructors who had tried to go in the past and in one case I know the guy made it to an interview and was not selected at United. While flying with the guy, we had a jump seater from United who was a senior FO bidding an awesome schedule on the 777. When asked when she interviewed for United, it turns out it was the exact same time that my captain had interviewed. When asked what she was doing at the time of the interview she said she was just out of school flying fire patrol in a Cessan 172 in northern Minnesota. That is the same scenario as that Jack hole Flyer I might add. 4001 hours and no PIC and hired at a place which had just recently published their Mins as being 1000 hours PIC and I am assuming had thousands of more qualified applicants. But yet he thinks he is something special because of a Equal Opportunity box he checked to get hired.

Pathetic. But life is not fair but I do not have to like it. I have friends who can check the same EO box but they are not delusional on the opportunity and more importantly they do not bash good people who were DENIED a job for losers like Flyer

You sound very angry, and really, you need to stop blaming sex or color for any woes. Yes it's an unfair world: I thought buying Mesaba was the dumbest thing Corp could have done, buying an airline losing 40% of its fleet (all the Saabs). But hey I don't control those decisions. Just as I don't control who gets called or not called for an interview. I will say this about your friend. If you said he's a senior checkairman, he may have been overqualified. The airlines have a flight time matrix, and those who are 10,000+ hours and checkairmen might find themselves in a disadvantage with certain airlines. Not all, but some. Don't shoot the messenger. Just something about them being ol' dogs with habits tough to break. As for the female FO that got hired at United, maybe she just interviewed better than your senior Captain you were flying with. Did it occur to you that someone could have had a bad attitude, or a sense of entitlement and therefore blew the interview? Maybe this lady was very nice, interviewed successfully, and United liked her, as opposed to your pilot buddy? Stop blaming other pilots. You already said yourself you were distracted when taking an online test for a job interview. So if it didn't go well, are your surprised? Those who passed it got a call. It has nothing to do with race or color or sex. The mins were changed so you are incorrect about the PIC thing. And EO? Just a scapegoat. Airlines call people and hire them based on the interview process at hand. Delta calls you in and gives you the same kinda computerized tests and a shrink interview. If you fail it, then you're done. Why blame EO or sex for that? People need to take responsibility for their own personal current predicament, and stop blaming others.

 

[xjhawk]

oh i am so glad they are on my ignore list. Its just sad when someone quotes them and I feel compelled to respond

 

[redflyer65]

What are the highlights of the agreement on the table? How bad is the TA?

Tried to search for it, but couldn't find it.

RF

 

[dingo222]

there is no ta as of yet

 

[bri5150]

What are the highlights of the agreement on the table? How bad is the TA?

Tried to search for it, but couldn't find it.

RF

I just read a stat on another forum. A 12-14 year pilot there will be an FO if Delta does what they are threatening. That 12-14 year FO will make $2.45 more an hour than the flight attendant in back with the same longevity. I would say that's bad.

 

[mesaba13]

What has Delta threatened? I believe all they said was that the 200 fleet will shrink. Be 140? 50? 10? Only Delta knows.

 

[xjhawk]

No they also threatened that if we do not come to an agreement that they will start transferring all of our flying to other DCI carriers and shut our operation down. The last time this happened (mesaba) at least the economy was good and the people who wanted to leave could just leave. This time its going to be a little more tough. They did say that no matter what they will start next year the reduction of the crj 200's.

 

[redflyer65]

I just read a stat on another forum. A 12-14 year pilot there will be an FO if Delta does what they are threatening. That 12-14 year FO will make $2.45 more an hour than the flight attendant in back with the same longevity. I would say that's bad.

So there's no actual numbers yet, but everyone is expecting the worst from the company/NC meetings? I guess the latest MEC memo wasn't too encouraging. Good luck everyone.

 

[profit]

But why no flowthrough.... and you know it. Delta pilots (and management) want to control WHO they hire. By having a flowthrough, you have zero chance of controlling who you hire, and that's precisely what YOUR pilot group wanted to avoid. Lets be honest, the flow is for the senior guys. The first couple hundred at Mesaba. And you know most of them are either content and never wanted to leave Mesaba, or were rejected from interviews and are now stuck. In either case, your pilot group doesn't want to sign off on lifers and give them a flowthrough. So before you judge me and cast me off, at least acknowledge that what I said is precisely why your pilot group dosen't want an automatic flow. They want a chance to choose a pilot, and weed out the bad ones.

True that DAL wants to be able to choose. However, the remaining Mesaba flow list is mostly full of very good people. Are there a few misfits in there? Sure. But I would submit to you that the ratio is no greater than the number of misfits who make it in through a normal hiring process. And there are a huge number of truly excellent people who were on the flow list before, but got cut off with the Mesaba purchase.

And there are also plenty who missed the wave in 2000/2001, got passed up by NWA/DAL a few years ago while 3-4000 hr pilots were getting hired. The same people who didn't want to make a move to an LCC (WN not included) because of the lower wages and drag on the industry, etc. etc. Lots of reasons, circumstances, and so on.. But to paint everyone in this group as either losers, lazy, or unambitious is just wrong.

 

[xjhawk]

Sound reasoning and judgement is not something Flyer does when he talks or posts. Let him post and remind everyone why he is better than everyone else who is still at Pinnacle.

 

[Flyer1015]

I'm no better off than the average John Doe. Speak with facts before you resort to personal/ego insults. I put thought and reason in posts. I'm not calling anyone a loser. Everyone has to make their own personal choices and do what they think is best.

The same people who didn't want to make a move to an LCC (WN not included) because of the lower wages and drag on the industry, etc. etc. Lots of reasons, circumstances, and so on..

You are correct for reasons and circumstances, but to say that a regional pilot wouldn't move to a LCC because of "lower wages and drag on the industry" doesn't make sense coming from a regional pilot, where it's all outsourced flying with the lowest wages (entry-level) in the industry.

 

[General Lee]

I think 1015 did the right thing. He saw PNCL was shrinking and had potential to get even smaller. If PIC was far away, then a chance at a LCC is the next choice. If they want to stay there as the LCC grows, then great. Often Majors go after LCC pilots to interview because they know how to handle the larger equipment already and are trainable, and taking pilots away from LCCs costs those carriers more money to train the next guy. With PNCL in shrink mode, he made the correct move IMO. Some people are afraid of change or don't want to take a chance. That chance can often lead to better things. 1015 and I haven't always agreed on certain topics, but I think he made a good move here for his career.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[xjhawk]

I think 1015 did the right thing. He saw PNCL was shrinking and had potential to get even smaller. If PIC was far away, then a chance at a LCC is the next choice. If they want to stay there as the LCC grows, then great. Often Majors go after LCC pilots to interview because they know how to handle the larger equipment already and are trainable, and taking pilots away from LCCs costs those carriers more money to train the next guy. With PNCL in shrink mode, he made the correct move IMO. Some people are afraid of change or don't want to take a chance. That chance can often lead to better things. 1015 and I haven't always agreed on certain topics, but I think he made a good move here for his career.



Bye Bye---General Lee

I have laughed at many of your posts but this is awesome. I have agreed with some of your ideas and for the most part you are full of ......we researched things about Delta but in this case you are full of a lot more crap. Seriously...handle the bigger aircraft? Really? One of my friends dad retired on the whale and guess what? at 300 hours he was hired at NWA to sit sideways on the 727, then went to FO, then Captain. Not long after that he was a captain on the 747. Statements like what you just posted about handling larger aircraft ....shows you are about as full of it as Flyer. Flyer made a good choice to leave, there are a lot of others waiting for that opportunity. But your statement is ridiculous. Career progression used to be from a Turbo prop to mainline. Done. When I was a intern at NWA with 260 hours, I did every lesson in the SIM on the 320 without a problem. So what you are saying is that a couple thousand hours of PIC in a CRJ means nothing and some idiot who gets lucky, with no PIC experience to bring to the job is a better choice. just peachy.

 

[RJLoser]

I have received more than one PM from his co workers to put him on ignore.