Pilots, White Collar or Blue Collar

[SoCentralRain]

Perhaps we were blues musicians in a past lifetime. To whit:

"The blues ain't nothin' but a good man feelin' bad." -Buddy Guy

"If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all." -Ray Charles

SCR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez:
I lost 2 jobs under the Bush admin, and hold him no more responsible for my debacle than I would you! I'm on airline #3, and guess what, this business runs in cycles, been that way since the 1960's!

Airline #3? That is it? Lucky guy. I know lots of guys that would love to only be at three.

Since the 60's? When did economic time begin for you? This has been going on since the 1920's!

One of the resons ALPA endorses Presidential Canidates is becuase of the way Bush I screwed the EAL guys. The EAL MEC pushed for the EB to endorse ALPA freindly presidential canidates....

But let's be clear... the bulk of ALPA's political and legislative effectiveness occurs on CapHill, not in the White House....

But it sure is nice when there is an ALPA friendly White House Admin.

 

[PCL_128]

When the Kerry/Bush race was on, I was flying with a guy.... who was committed to voting Pro-Life. He lost his job.

He may have lost his job, but at least he can continue to look himself in the mirror and know that he didn't sell his moral beliefs out for another paycheck.

Hows that morality taste kids? Eat it up cause Daddy's serving high morals for breakfast, lunch and dinner! In fact, abortion is down 15%. How do those percentage points taste kids? Yummy! You're still not hungry are you?


What's the point?

In fact, it is quite intresting how people's morals change when their situation changes. Let's get extreme for the sake of debate. Would you eat another human being? No way, but get stranded on a frozen mountain with no food and things change......

Ahh, I see. Moral relativism. Everything is shades of gray. No right, no wrong. No good, no evil. That certainly makes life convenient. If a certain moral belief doesn't quite fit with what's best for you, then just twist and distort the issue until it becomes "gray" and "nuanced." It must be easy going through life when you don't have any moral standard to hold yourself and the people you vote for up to.

That is correct! I can work both issues: My Carrer and my morals.

So can I. I vote my conscience during elections, and I volunteer for my Association to work on helping my career and profession. I don't have to sacrifice my morals and self-respect to do that. I'll stick with my way, thank you very much.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

He may have lost his job, but at least he can continue to look himself in the mirror and know that he didn't sell his moral beliefs out for another paycheck..

He doesn't have a mirror to look in cause he lost the house!!!! The only reflection he can find is in his wife and kids crying eyes!!! When you have to come home and tell your wife there is no more paychecks to live and eat, the last thing on your mind is the morality of polarized political issues!! The bank will not take your own personal beliefs as credit.. in fact the bank manager that has the note on your house might be the gay guy that you don't want to get married....!!!



Daddy, the kids at school are joking my crooked teeth, can I get braces?
No, but good news, more states are banning gay marriage!


later at school.....
Hey crooked teeth kid! You look like a dumbass redneck... what's the matter? your daddy don't love you?

My daddy loves me... (I think).. but more importantly gay marriage is illegal is over 30 states!

(Sounds like Joe Dirt II)

Ahh, I see. Moral relativism. Everything is shades of gray. No right, no wrong. No good, no evil. That certainly makes life convenient. If a certain moral belief doesn't quite fit with what's best for you, then just twist and distort the issue until it becomes "gray" and "nuanced." It must be easy going through life when you don't have any moral standard to hold yourself and the people you vote for up to. .

Easy there.....

A parent, spouse and a single person has a moral obligation to himself and his family. What is more important? Trying to change the world or developing an internal code.

If you think abortion is wrong.... then don't have one!
If you think you should have 10 guns..then go buy them.
If you think there should be no gay marriage.. then don't marry a dude!

What you are talking about is brand identity. And you are using polarizing political issues that are in conflict. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too.... Time to make a choice.... you can't have it all....



So many people define themsleves by commercial brands, political parties and polarizing issues...

When asked... who are you..? Many reply...

I am a GWB votin' (never vote Dem?)
Ford Truck drivin' (never drive a GM?)
Coca Cola Drinkin' (never drink Pepsi?)
Smith and Wesson packin' (never buy and HK?)
Target Shoppin' (never go to Wal mart?)
Burger King eatin' (never eat at Mickey's)
kinda guy.....

Those are Culture based traits, not character.... and never say never....

Do you really define yourself by polarized political issues?

Abortion.. there are those against it.... but not if their daughter was raped by retarded 35 year old.! Kinda grey isn't it...

Gay marriage. Many are against it.... but what if it provided health benefits, thru domestic partner programs. Who wants to deny another human being health care? Kinda grey isn't it...

[insert next polaraized issue here]

The fact is nothing is absolute, life is not black and white... So don't try relative morality, especially on issues that you don't have control....

How about personal integrity.... that you can control....


Morality is inconsequential in death, survival and struggle. Do you really expect people to vote polarized political issues when they are struggling just to pay the bills, keep the house and maintain a sliver of the standard of living they've worked so hard to obtain...

So can I. I vote my conscience during elections, and I volunteer for my Association to work on helping my career and profession. I don't have to sacrifice my morals and self-respect to do that. I'll stick with my way, thank you very much.

I can't think of any moral obligation that takes precedence over family and self.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Excellent post TC

 

[stonewall]

I am not!

This is another facet of the issue. It is not Democrat or Republican. It is not black or white, yes or no....

This is something that is very grey and many guys have trouble dealing in the grey. The want yes/no answers that are quantifiable.

What are the issues and what politican supports your issues. If a GOP supports Air Line Pilots issues then support him/her. Polarizing around the party is mindless.....

Magnum you should be very concerned about Fred Smith and his push for Foreign ownership... at the same time you'll be glad to know that many republicans voted against foriegn control.....

You guys in the ANG/Reserve have it tough..... which is more important... (which one generates more income) your civilian labor job or your military officer job.... opposite sides politically.. (when it comes to the Prez vote)

I AM very concerned about foreign ownership! I know Fred would immediately open up a "little China" in east Memphis and give free housing to any chinese pilot who would live here and fly his boxes for 25k/year. And I WILL vote against politician who advocates this type of stuff, be they republican, democrat, libertarian, or whatever.

If I ever truly believe my job depends on a political race, I'll vote my job in a heartbeat. However, I don't think the occupant of the WH has as much influence over these issues as do the pogues in Congress. If that means I vote for a GOPer for President and a Dem for the House or Senate (or vice versa), I'll do it in a heartbeat.

The intention (in my opinion) of the Founders was that the President is the Chief Foreign Policy officer of the US and the Congress would handle the domestic issues. Of course, they also had no intention for anyone to be a career politician, either. I actually have more to say on this issue, but I'm just so dam* irritated with every jack*ss in Congress right now that I'm just getting spun up.

Have a great 4th, Rez.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Have a great 4th, Rez.

Happy 4th......

Thanks for the DOD service.....

Rezfully yours.....

:beer:

 

[PHXFLYR]

WOW! I shoulda talked to you when I got furloughed back on '02. The best I could find is jobs that started at less than $30K and the competition was fierce.
Of course, you're not talking starting salaries. You're not even talking 5, 6 year salaries. Take a look: http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional.html
The fastest you can is Horizon, year 12. And that's flying 1000 hrs/yr.
Most sub-major carriers don't even get you to $100K/yr. Ever.

Now if we want to discuss on demand cargo ops, I guess that we can talk about USA jet. Pays $300/wk in training. Starting salary: $51.84/hr w/55 hr/mo guarantee; $2851.20/mo. So we're still talking under $40K. On call; must be able to be at the airport in less than 20 minutes when paged. Must live in Detroit area. Do they issue body armor? I hope that they at least issue a snow shovel.
I assume that this is the place that you are referring to that will eventually pay $100K/yr. Of course the devil's in the details.

Seems like you are looking for a flying position that STARTS at 100K per year. Ain't happenin', bro.And something tells me you weren't swimming in greenbacks as a wet behind the ears butter bar in the air corps, or a probie
plumber at UA for that matter.


PHXFLYR

 

[Andy]

Seems like you are looking for a flying position that STARTS at 100K per year. Ain't happenin', bro.And something tells me you weren't swimming in greenbacks as a wet behind the ears butter bar in the air corps, or a probie
plumber at UA for that matter.


PHXFLYR

Did I forget the sarcasm function on/off again? I was responding to a post stating that $100K/yr was pretty good; he implied that it can be easily attained in the flying profession. There aren't many domestic pilot positions outside of the majors paying that kind of coin. Ever. And many outside of the majors come with quite a few strings attached (pagers, must live in xxx, etc, always on call, etc).
I realize that starting at $100K doesn't happen domestically; I do know a couple of places that start at that salary, but they're not what I'd call garden spots.

 

[XJohXJ]

We are certainly blue collar, with regional airlines paying significantly lower than many other blue collar jobs.

 

[Aplus9]

Blue collar worker with a white shirt...I can live with that, since blue really isn't my color.

 

[XJohXJ]

Make no mistakes folks, if you aren't fantastically rich, Bush hates you!

 

[XJohXJ]

Seems like you are looking for a flying position that STARTS at 100K per year. Ain't happenin', bro.And something tells me you weren't swimming in greenbacks as a wet behind the ears butter bar in the air corps, or a probie
plumber at UA for that matter.


PHXFLYR

Of course a job won't start that high. The problem is that the entire system is so anti-labor these days, that it is exceptionally difficult to stay with any employer these days long enough to reap the benifits of longevity. All you folks who are senior these days at your respective airlines are lucky. Good for you. However, you are not better people than those junior to you.

 

[stonewall]

Make no mistakes folks, if you aren't fantastically rich, Bush hates you!

Or if you're black. Or gay. Or old. Or a child. Or a woman. I think Bush hates cats, too. And trees. Idiot.

 

[PCL_128]

Make no mistakes folks, if you aren't fantastically rich, Bush hates you!

More class-warfare rhetoric from the left. Is that all you libs have to offer?