Pilots, White Collar or Blue Collar

[maru657]

A quote by one of the original members of ALPA, "We worked for years and years to get the wages and working conditions of the average US pilot above that of itinerant farm workers and then they failed the IQ test and started thinking they were republicans." When management was allowed to create 2nd class feeder airlines and treat the pilot groups as 2nd class citizens, a ready made group of scabs were created. When you bought "little Herky" that degree in advanced basket weaving and the entry level job at the majors despite his inadequate level of experience. You guaranteed that someone out there saw the iniquities of the situation and stood ready to take "Herky's" job at the first opportunity. This is not a recent development. It's been brewing for over 40 years.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

A quote by one of the original members of ALPA, "We worked for years and years to get the wages and working conditions of the average US pilot above that of itinerant farm workers and then they failed the IQ test and started thinking they were republicans."


This is not a recent development. It's been brewing for over 40 years.

Not sure if its been brewing or really the way it is... and has always been.

I am all for captilaism, but too many RAPs (Republican Air Line Pilots) think free market capitalism is utopia. No system is perfect. RAPs cheer on the free market for many reasons including fear. Fear of being labeled socialist or communist. High School is over boys, it is not black and white.

Does it occur that supporting free market captilism is the catalylist to your concessions?

I saw a pilot today with a W04 sticker on his flight case next to his "What Does Paul Foley do?". He has no clue...

Did Jewish Nazi's ever exist?

 

[Bosley]

All true and totally irrelevant. Take off the blinders and look at reality. Blue as it gets.

Don't be too tough on old einstein/chuck/boris/lame. He's having a bad day since his other user name (boris yelling) got banned! His logic (if you can call it that) is based on being a flight attendant at Skyway airlines thus he has no "real world" experience and is talking about stuff he has absolutely NO idea about!!

 

[737 Pylt]

Don't be too tough on old einstein/chuck/boris/lame. He's having a bad day since his other user name (boris yelling) got banned! His logic (if you can call it that) is based on being a flight attendant at Skyway airlines thus he has no "real world" experience and is talking about stuff he has absolutely NO idea about!!

I don't know why you guys get all fired up over chuck/einstein/boris/limp....Look at just how many user accounts this prick has been through! Its just a matter of time before he makes someone else mad and gets banned again. I wouldn't piss on this guy if he was on fire!
BTW Limp, what DID happen to boris? He doesn't even come up on a member search list!
737

 

[PCL_128]

I saw a pilot today with a W04 sticker on his flight case next to his "What Does Paul Foley do?". He has no clue...

I'm sure he "has a clue." He probably just doesn't share your world-view that you should base your voting decisions solely on your career issues. Some of us think our country and our moral beliefs are far more important than who is appointed to the NMB.

 

[:-)]

my collar tends to be a grundgy, orangy/yellowy shade of sweat, oil and dirt ground in on a white shirt.

I don't mind being "blue collar" , I just get tired of being expected to take on white collar responsibilites. Management likes having it both ways, and unfortunately we let em.

 

[pilotyip]

Remember Calvin without management there would be no airlines.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm sure he "has a clue." He probably just doesn't share your world-view that you should base your voting decisions solely on your career issues. Some of us think our country and our moral beliefs are far more important than who is appointed to the NMB.

When the Kerry/Bush race was on, I was flying with a guy.... who was committed to voting Pro-Life. He lost his job.

No paycheck means no mortgage which means no house.
No paycheck means no food which means no nutrition.



​

Hows that morality taste kids? Eat it up cause Daddy's serving high morals for breakfast, lunch and dinner! In fact, abortion is down 15%. How do those percentage points taste kids? Yummy! You're still not hungry are you?

What's the point?

In fact, it is quite intresting how people's morals change when their situation changes. Let's get extreme for the sake of debate. Would you eat another human being? No way, but get stranded on a frozen mountain with no food and things change......

(back to the real world)

Get furloughed twice and start on first year pay three times in the last six years and you begin to wonder what is more important: Trying to control the way someone else has sex or feeding your family.

Vote your career.

Lobby your hobby....



​

If your moral beliefs are more important than defending this profession and making this career viable for US Air Line Pilots in the next century then may I kindly show you the door and invite you to join up with a Pro-Life organization, or whatever political issue your morals are in sync with. With the systematic and total decimation of the Air Line Pilot Career we need pilots who will defend this profession by going to the mat and bringing a gun to a knife fight.

Do your morals have political boundries? Then what about the abortion issue in China? Gun control in Europe? and Gay Marriage in Fagville? You cannot change the world nor control it. Effect change where you have influence.

It is not that at I am pro-choice, or pro gay marriage or anti gun, it's just that I am Pro My Career and Family first. I'll vote my job then lobby the politicans as each "moral" piece of legislation hits the Hill. This is the way effective politics is done. Not once every four years with fire and forget Prez votes.

That is correct! I can work both issues: My Carrer and my morals.

How can I fight the moral issues if I have no house, no income, no car, no career and an ex wife with a judge who demands alimony?

Doesn't your Career and Family take precedence over polarized political issues?

 

[stonewall]

When the Kerry/Bush race was on, I was flying with a guy.... he was committed to voting Pro-Life. He lost his job.

No paycheck means no mortgage which means no house.
No paycheck means no food which means no nutrition.

​

Hows that morality taste kids? Eat it up cause Daddy's serving high morals for breakfast, lunch and dinner! You're still not hungry are you?

What's the point?

In fact, it is quite intresting how people's morals change when their situation changes. Let's get extreme for the sake of debate. Would you eat another human being? No way, but get stranded on a frozen mountain with no food and things change......

(back to the real world)

Get furloughed twice and start on first year pay three times in the last six years and you begin to wonder what is more important: Trying to control the way someone else has sex or feeding your family.

Vote your career.

Lobby your hobby....

​

If your moral beliefs are more important than defending this profession and making this career viable for US Air Line Pilots in the next century then may I kindly show you the door and invite you to join up with a Pro-Life organization, or whatever political issue your morals are in sync with. With the systematic and total decimation of the Air Line Pilot Career we need pilots who will defend this profession by going to the mat and bringing a gun to a knife fight.

Do your morals have political boundries? Then what about the abortion issue in China? Gun control in Europe? and Gay Marriage in Fagville? You cannot change the world nor control it. Effect change where you have influence.

It is not that at I am pro-choice, or pro gay marriage or anti gun, it's just that I am Pro My Career and Family first. I'll vote my job then lobby the politicans as each "moral" piece of legislation hits the Hill. This is the way effective politics is done. Not once every four years with fire and forget Prez votes.

Doesn't your Career and Family take precedence over polarized political issues?

So the guy lost his job because Kerry lost the election? Where were the dems when labor asked 'em to vote "no" on NAFTA? China being allowed into the WTO?

I will not pretend the GOP is over-whelmingly pro-labor, but I think y'all should not pretend the Dems are, either.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So the guy lost his job because Kerry lost the election? Where were the dems when labor asked 'em to vote "no" on NAFTA? China being allowed into the WTO?

I will not pretend the GOP is over-whelmingly pro-labor, but I think y'all should not pretend the Dems are, either.

I am not!

This is another facet of the issue. It is not Democrat or Republican. It is not black or white, yes or no....

This is something that is very grey and many guys have trouble dealing in the grey. The want yes/no answers that are quantifiable.

What are the issues and what politican supports your issues. If a GOP supports Air Line Pilots issues then support him/her. Polarizing around the party is mindless.....

Magnum you should be very concerned about Fred Smith and his push for Foreign ownership... at the same time you'll be glad to know that many republicans voted against foriegn control.....

You guys in the ANG/Reserve have it tough..... which is more important... (which one generates more income) your civilian labor job or your military officer job.... opposite sides politically.. (when it comes to the Prez vote)

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

In fact, it is quite intresting how people's morals change when their situation changes. Let's get extreme for the sake of debate. Would you eat another human being?

I ate one last night. It was rather pleasant, actually. In fact, I think I'm going to go back and see if there are any "leftovers..."

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I ate one last night. It was rather pleasant, actually. In fact, I think I'm going to go back and see if there are any "leftovers..."

Don't forget the special sauce.....!!!

 

[Midge]

When the Kerry/Bush race was on, I was flying with a guy.... who was committed to voting Pro-Life. He lost his job.

No paycheck means no mortgage which means no house.
No paycheck means no food which means no nutrition.





​

Hows that morality taste kids? Eat it up cause Daddy's serving high morals for breakfast, lunch and dinner! In fact, abortion is down 15%. How do those percentage points taste kids? Yummy! You're still not hungry are you?

What's the point?

In fact, it is quite intresting how people's morals change when their situation changes. Let's get extreme for the sake of debate. Would you eat another human being? No way, but get stranded on a frozen mountain with no food and things change......

(back to the real world)

Get furloughed twice and start on first year pay three times in the last six years and you begin to wonder what is more important: Trying to control the way someone else has sex or feeding your family.

Vote your career.

Lobby your hobby....





​

If your moral beliefs are more important than defending this profession and making this career viable for US Air Line Pilots in the next century then may I kindly show you the door and invite you to join up with a Pro-Life organization, or whatever political issue your morals are in sync with. With the systematic and total decimation of the Air Line Pilot Career we need pilots who will defend this profession by going to the mat and bringing a gun to a knife fight.

Do your morals have political boundries? Then what about the abortion issue in China? Gun control in Europe? and Gay Marriage in Fagville? You cannot change the world nor control it. Effect change where you have influence.

It is not that at I am pro-choice, or pro gay marriage or anti gun, it's just that I am Pro My Career and Family first. I'll vote my job then lobby the politicans as each "moral" piece of legislation hits the Hill. This is the way effective politics is done. Not once every four years with fire and forget Prez votes.

That is correct! I can work both issues: My Carrer and my morals.

How can I fight the moral issues if I have no house, no income, no car, no career and an ex wife with a judge who demands alimony?

Doesn't your Career and Family take precedence over polarized political issues?

Rez:
All due respect, you're nuts!
I lost 2 jobs under the Bush admin, and hold him no more responsible for my debacle than I would you! I'm on airline #3, and guess what, this business runs in cycles, been that way since the 1960's!
I think you better set yourself up for a random drug test, because the candy you're chewing on is making you sound kinda funny.
Now if you'll excuse me, hockey season is over, and I have to find another part time job!
Midge
Oh yeah, and Lame Lizard, you're a tool!

 

[maru657]

Rez:
All due respect, you're nuts!
I lost 2 jobs under the Bush admin, and hold him no more responsible for my debacle than I would you! I'm on airline #3, and guess what, this business runs in cycles, been that way since the 1960's!
I think you better set yourself up for a random drug test, because the candy you're chewing on is making you sound kinda funny.
Now if you'll excuse me, hockey season is over, and I have to find another part time job!
Midge
Oh yeah, and Lame Lizard, you're a tool!

Guess the question is, Which bush? And maybe you should get used to those part time jobs.

 

[pilotyip]

Yea I had three jobs under Bush the First

 

[SoCentralRain]

Perhaps we were blues musicians in a past lifetime. To whit:

"The blues ain't nothin' but a good man feelin' bad." -Buddy Guy

"If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all." -Ray Charles

SCR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez:
I lost 2 jobs under the Bush admin, and hold him no more responsible for my debacle than I would you! I'm on airline #3, and guess what, this business runs in cycles, been that way since the 1960's!

Airline #3? That is it? Lucky guy. I know lots of guys that would love to only be at three.

Since the 60's? When did economic time begin for you? This has been going on since the 1920's!

One of the resons ALPA endorses Presidential Canidates is becuase of the way Bush I screwed the EAL guys. The EAL MEC pushed for the EB to endorse ALPA freindly presidential canidates....

But let's be clear... the bulk of ALPA's political and legislative effectiveness occurs on CapHill, not in the White House....

But it sure is nice when there is an ALPA friendly White House Admin.

 

[PCL_128]

When the Kerry/Bush race was on, I was flying with a guy.... who was committed to voting Pro-Life. He lost his job.

He may have lost his job, but at least he can continue to look himself in the mirror and know that he didn't sell his moral beliefs out for another paycheck.

Hows that morality taste kids? Eat it up cause Daddy's serving high morals for breakfast, lunch and dinner! In fact, abortion is down 15%. How do those percentage points taste kids? Yummy! You're still not hungry are you?


What's the point?

In fact, it is quite intresting how people's morals change when their situation changes. Let's get extreme for the sake of debate. Would you eat another human being? No way, but get stranded on a frozen mountain with no food and things change......

Ahh, I see. Moral relativism. Everything is shades of gray. No right, no wrong. No good, no evil. That certainly makes life convenient. If a certain moral belief doesn't quite fit with what's best for you, then just twist and distort the issue until it becomes "gray" and "nuanced." It must be easy going through life when you don't have any moral standard to hold yourself and the people you vote for up to.

That is correct! I can work both issues: My Carrer and my morals.

So can I. I vote my conscience during elections, and I volunteer for my Association to work on helping my career and profession. I don't have to sacrifice my morals and self-respect to do that. I'll stick with my way, thank you very much.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

He may have lost his job, but at least he can continue to look himself in the mirror and know that he didn't sell his moral beliefs out for another paycheck..

He doesn't have a mirror to look in cause he lost the house!!!! The only reflection he can find is in his wife and kids crying eyes!!! When you have to come home and tell your wife there is no more paychecks to live and eat, the last thing on your mind is the morality of polarized political issues!! The bank will not take your own personal beliefs as credit.. in fact the bank manager that has the note on your house might be the gay guy that you don't want to get married....!!!



Daddy, the kids at school are joking my crooked teeth, can I get braces?
No, but good news, more states are banning gay marriage!


later at school.....
Hey crooked teeth kid! You look like a dumbass redneck... what's the matter? your daddy don't love you?

My daddy loves me... (I think).. but more importantly gay marriage is illegal is over 30 states!

(Sounds like Joe Dirt II)

Ahh, I see. Moral relativism. Everything is shades of gray. No right, no wrong. No good, no evil. That certainly makes life convenient. If a certain moral belief doesn't quite fit with what's best for you, then just twist and distort the issue until it becomes "gray" and "nuanced." It must be easy going through life when you don't have any moral standard to hold yourself and the people you vote for up to. .

Easy there.....

A parent, spouse and a single person has a moral obligation to himself and his family. What is more important? Trying to change the world or developing an internal code.

If you think abortion is wrong.... then don't have one!
If you think you should have 10 guns..then go buy them.
If you think there should be no gay marriage.. then don't marry a dude!

What you are talking about is brand identity. And you are using polarizing political issues that are in conflict. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too.... Time to make a choice.... you can't have it all....



So many people define themsleves by commercial brands, political parties and polarizing issues...

When asked... who are you..? Many reply...

I am a GWB votin' (never vote Dem?)
Ford Truck drivin' (never drive a GM?)
Coca Cola Drinkin' (never drink Pepsi?)
Smith and Wesson packin' (never buy and HK?)
Target Shoppin' (never go to Wal mart?)
Burger King eatin' (never eat at Mickey's)
kinda guy.....

Those are Culture based traits, not character.... and never say never....

Do you really define yourself by polarized political issues?

Abortion.. there are those against it.... but not if their daughter was raped by retarded 35 year old.! Kinda grey isn't it...

Gay marriage. Many are against it.... but what if it provided health benefits, thru domestic partner programs. Who wants to deny another human being health care? Kinda grey isn't it...

[insert next polaraized issue here]

The fact is nothing is absolute, life is not black and white... So don't try relative morality, especially on issues that you don't have control....

How about personal integrity.... that you can control....


Morality is inconsequential in death, survival and struggle. Do you really expect people to vote polarized political issues when they are struggling just to pay the bills, keep the house and maintain a sliver of the standard of living they've worked so hard to obtain...

So can I. I vote my conscience during elections, and I volunteer for my Association to work on helping my career and profession. I don't have to sacrifice my morals and self-respect to do that. I'll stick with my way, thank you very much.

I can't think of any moral obligation that takes precedence over family and self.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Excellent post TC