Pilots, White Collar or Blue Collar

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Back when it was a regulated industry it was all white collar.

Furthest from the truth. It has always been the same, in that we are blue collar.

Knowing our history is critical.


This is a major problem. We think we are someone who we aren't. How can we effectively address our agenda if we aren't in the same universe!

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

We're basically white-collar-type people doing a blue collar job.

Now, when it's your name on the side of the plane, that's different...

 

[Turbine Pilot]

Let me correct myself.

In regulation we may have been blue collar but were treated like white collars.

My .02 cents

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

We're basically white-collar-type people doing a blue collar job.

Now, when it's your name on the side of the plane, that's different...

Agreed. A lot of pilots now days are college educated (white collar). A lot were officers in the military ("management" - white collar) but doing a "blue collar" job (but a lot more fun - the actual flying stuff).

Agree about the middle class stuff but that's a whole different thread.....great news for Wal-mart though .

 

[flyhi92]

I'm collar-blind.....

The white vs blue question isn't applicable to your occupation, imho.

You're all (majors and regionals) professionals, doing an important job that's critical to our way of life and one that requires you to assume a huge responsibility for the safety of your customers, one that only you can do because of the extensive training to make the most of abilities that few have.

Is it brain surgery? No, but if the brain surgeon makes a fatal mistake only one person dies.

I'm just grateful that you don't have to be good spellers to be good pilots!

 

[jetflier]

I don't mean to be a butthead about this, but a plea to be considered a white collar worker might be more persuasive if you made the effort to spel write; you know put that higher education and "continous speciallized traing" to use.

GUMMO,


P U L EE Z E.....!

...does your but squeak when you walk ?.......

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Its a hard pill to swallow; white collar workers don't wear uniforms to work, they're not paid by the hour under union bargained wages, they don't operate heavy machinery for a living, and they don't go on strike when they don't get what they want.

Interesting analogy between pilots and some medical doctors:

They wear a uniform (white coat/tie or scrubs), many ARE paid negotiated wages (docs working for Kaiser, for instance, are in the Permanente Medical Group and supply their labor to Kaiser under a fee agreement, perhaps they don't operate "heavy machinery" but do operate multi-million $ equipment like pilots, and more and more of them are unionizing and threatening to withhold their services in an effort to restore their declining pay/working conditions.

I don't know of anyone who would consider doctors to be blue collar, however. In some medical sub-specialties, their colleagues readily refer to them as technicians due to the limited field/scope of medicine they practice.

The general decline in the medical profession has been underway for about 2 decades. Like today's cargo pilots, some docs in specialties and sub-specialties have fared relatively well (economically speaking) in spite of the decline in the medical field around them.

I find many similarities in the two professions. Both are in decline in terms of prestige and financial remuneration. 30 years ago major airline pilots were respected and looked up to and doctors' conclusions were not questioned. Now, people feel pity for airline pilots losing their pensions and wages, a significant number of airlines are bankrupt (or nearly so), the LCC's (like today's HMO's) are the norm and most patients obtain a second or third "opinion" on any serious diagnosis.

There are many parallels.

BBB

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Let me correct myself.

In regulation we may have been blue collar but were treated like white collars.

My .02 cents

I still disagree. Throughout the history of Air Line Pilots, we have been pushed, coerced, intimidated, terminated, blamed (pilot error) and hammered. Some of the toughest times were in the beginning of the century when the Air Line Pilot profession was young.

How'd you like to come to work, only to be met by an armed guard who escorted you to a company offical who handed you your termination notice and an application for employment at a lower wage?

We tend to glorify and romance the yester years....

 

[Occam's Razor]

"White collar"..."Blue collar"...meh.

Categories. I refuse to be fixed into a cateogry. I'm a pilot. I get paid by the hour to do something I like to do. I don't give a hoot what "collar" they want to call me.

Chicks dig me, and guys wish they were me. Little kids think I'm lucky.

 

[Photoflight]

So generally airline pilots fit the definition of blue collar workers...does that mean corporate guys are white collar because they make a salary and don't work under a contract?

 

[Fins Up]

"White collar"..."Blue collar"...meh.

Categories. I refuse to be fixed into a cateogry. I'm a pilot. I get paid by the hour to do something I like to do. I don't give a hoot what "collar" they want to call me.

Here Here.

 

[Flip Conroy]

This downward spiral has nothing to do with political parties. It is about the "elites" in this country controlling everything. They believe it is their manifest destiny to run the country. The educated middle class is a threat to their position.

I've seen this first hand. My daughter has gone to the top private school in my city since K. We thought we'd fit in with the other parents because I was a pilot for a "major airline". Not exactly. There is a club among those with money. We weren't invited. Never mind that alcoholism and drug abuse is rampant, these are the superior beings on this earth and they are destined to ride herd over the rest of us.

.TC

Man, based on your last couple of posts, you have misplaced so much of your energy and assigned WAY too much importance to things that just don't matter at all and over which you have NO control.

If I were you, I get a grip on reality and start worrying about the things that really are important and understand that BS will always be BS and there is not one damm thing you can do about it.

 

[Uppercrust]

Interesting analogy between pilots and some medical doctors:

They wear a uniform (white coat/tie or scrubs), many ARE paid negotiated wages (docs working for Kaiser, for instance, are in the Permanente Medical Group and supply their labor to Kaiser under a fee agreement, perhaps they don't operate "heavy machinery" but do operate multi-million $ equipment like pilots, and more and more of them are unionizing and threatening to withhold their services in an effort to restore their declining pay/working conditions.

I don't know of anyone who would consider doctors to be blue collar, however. In some medical sub-specialties, their colleagues readily refer to them as technicians due to the limited field/scope of medicine they practice.

The general decline in the medical profession has been underway for about 2 decades. Like today's cargo pilots, some docs in specialties and sub-specialties have fared relatively well (economically speaking) in spite of the decline in the medical field around them.

I find many similarities in the two professions. Both are in decline in terms of prestige and financial remuneration. 30 years ago major airline pilots were respected and looked up to and doctors' conclusions were not questioned. Now, people feel pity for airline pilots losing their pensions and wages, a significant number of airlines are bankrupt (or nearly so), the LCC's (like today's HMO's) are the norm and most patients obtain a second or third "opinion" on any serious diagnosis.

There are many parallels.

BBB

There isn't much comparison at all. Knowing somebody to get a job is how pilots work. The job when you get it, really ain't that bad.

Seriously, try becoming a doctor. We do have hoops to jump through as pilots but they are big hoops. Doctors have a lot more education to go through, they must get high marks, and overall it is a much more competitive/objective and performance judged game. What's competitive about knowing somebody to get a job!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: How hard is it to fly a computer anyway???

 

[pilotyip]

You can make a career as a pilot with out a college degree, you can not do that as a doctor. Fly because you like to and this is a great career. If you are in it for other things you may be disappointed.

 

[Green]

You can search this board for this discussion.....

Look at it this way.... How does management and Wall Street view airline pilots?

We are blue collar all the way. But we are unique. Unlike most blue collar workers we show up to picketing and strikes in Caddy's and BMWs.

When it comes down to negotiations we function just like all the other blue collar workers. Hammering out hourly rates, work rules etc...

Perhaps when this profession was born it should've been defined as salary?

The trick is to present ourselves as professionally as we can.

So the next time you pass a maid cleaning rooms in your hotel, know that Air Line Pilots have much in common with her than white collar workers.

Respectfully, with Air Mail on the wings, and 75 years of expereince I'd think this would be known......

ALPA was in court to define whether we were a profession or a trade union. The power players in this country think you are blue collar.



A good book is "The Air Line Pilots: A Study In Elite Unionization".

I was written by Hopkins. His work was noticed by ALPA he was asked to write Flying the Line. As you know Flying the Line and The Air Line Pilots are not pro ALPA.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=George%20E.%20Hopkins&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/103-4660626-7463029

Not many pilots driving Caddy's and BMW's these days. That might have been a little more realistic about 5-10 years ago. I find it ironic that Air Traffic controllers used to argue that they deserve to make as much as Pilots and now they make significantly more than the average pilot (ATC=150k/yr avg.).

 

[91100 100 set]

Blue, and don't ever try to fool yourself otherwise...

 

[ferlo]

Blue as it gets...Except we have the feds standing on our throats with the Railway Labor act. Just as blue as a UAW but with out the rights and control.

 

[Phaedrus]

I'm so blue I don't know what to do.
-Madame Blueberry (Veggie Tales)

 

[pilotguy733]

We are blue collar workers, dressed like white collar workers, and paid like fast food workers.

 

[ivauir]

I consider myself high speed equipment/heavy equipment operator.