Pilots making the NJA/NJI move!

[Fozzy]

And what do you have to base that on???
2 years IOE?!? Is it the space shuttle!?! Give it a rest. 100 hours max. Now get over it.

The question you should be asking is what of all the FO's. To stir the pot..........
My prediction is that they will see the left seat (in the G-wiz) when their DOH seniorty can hold it. In about 10-15 years.
How do like them apples.

 

[anchorman]

Flyjetspeed,
I agree with most of what you say. However, on the type rating issue: The contract states that if a new hire NJA FO goes to NJI, then NJA will not be required to provide an NJA type rating. I interpret that to mean they won't get a type in an NJA aircraft AND a GIV. It does not say they will be required to provide their own type.

I agree with your take on the Seniority. The contract says all transferring pilots will be subject to NJI work rules. Seniority falls under that statement. NJA pilots coming over as captains will get the pay but will not be "PIC". I'm sure it will be clear as mud in the next few months.

_______________________________________________________________

"You pooped in the refrigerator and you ate the whole wheel of cheese? Wow, I'm not even mad. That's amazing."

 

[Archie Bunker]

Just a guess here but I see a 2 year minimum IOE period for incoming GIV Captain seats for NJA folks after this is settled just my .02.

That is absolutely hilarious. The G-4 is so advanced and its mission so difficult to master that it will require 2 years IOE for any incoming Capt.......please excuse my laughter.

At Delta, I could upgrade to the B-777 and be a fully qualified and type rated F/O in 25 hours. If I was upgrading to Capt on the B-777 from the left seat of a MD-88, I could be fully qualified to sign for the aircraft in about 30-40 hours max. From where are you getting these outrageous and laughable IOE requirements? You make it sound as if the Gulfstream and its mission are so incredibly difficult that only an anointed few could possibly measure up and accomplish the mission. Certainly not any scuzzy NJA Falcon or X Captain with thousands of hours of experience, and 10 years with the company. I guess I'm just not seeing the big picture here. Please enlighten me.

 

[bizjet737]

hopefully they learned their lesson from the bbj - but we all know nja - lessons are never learned. the bbj-clot was such a fiasco it wasn't funny. they wasted so much time and money on some of those guys it was sad. and in the end, njla conceded they weren't really needed.

 

[AA717driver]

This is starting to look like another ambiguously worded contract that will end up with the company doing what it wants, the union grieving it and several years later the grievance being settled to no one's satisfaction.

In the mean time, the company will have selected another section of the contract and the process begins again.TC

P.S.--Thanks, Fozzy, for clarifying your position. By any chance, were you on the APA BOD around 2000-2001?

 

[XTW]

How tough can the G's be? TC managed to qualify, and he's a SD3 driver!



X

 

[h25b]

This is starting to look like another ambiguously worded contract that will end up with the company doing what it wants, the union grieving it and several years later the grievance being settled to no one's satisfaction.

I'm betting that this is exactly the situation ...

P.S.--Thanks, Fozzy, for clarifying your position. By any chance, were you on the APA BOD around 2000-2001?

ROTFLMAO...

 

[squonk]

Archie Bunker:

That is absolutely hilarious. The G-4 is so advanced and its mission so difficult to master that it will require 2 years IOE for any incoming Capt.......please excuse my laughter.

It is hilarious. I have five friends (three of whom I flew with at NJA) who have moved over (or up) to NJI. If memory serves me well, two had never flown a God bird before. I don't think they sat on IOE for two years either. Why would there be such a rule now?

I think this says more about the culture over at NJI than anything. BTW, any NJI brothers want to fill us in on IOE as it is structured now? How many hours do the newly anointed ride IOE as it stands?

 

[flyjetspeed]

And what do you have to base that on???
2 years IOE?!? Is it the space shuttle!?! Give it a rest. 100 hours max. Now get over it.

The question you should be asking is what of all the FO's. To stir the pot..........
My prediction is that they will see the left seat (in the G-wiz) when their DOH seniorty can hold it. In about 10-15 years.
How do like them apples.

Geez Fozzy do you always come out swinging whenever someone has a view you
don't agree with? I suppose I should be gratefull you did'nt call me a moron or
lower yourself to profanity like you usually do.
In response to your jumping conclusion that the GIV/GV is some space shuttle
type machine, of course that is absurd. Any pilot with experience in an automated
cockpit would transition without difficulty,as many have in the past.
What I WAS trying to say is that the tradition/policy/work rule at NJI has always been
that prior longevity outside of NJI is not credited. The clock is set to 00:00. All NJA
and EJM crewmembers that have come over, and there have been many, as well as returning
crewmembers from any other operation, have started over. I apologize for the 2 year WAG.
It was based on nothing. Current upgrades are at 4 years, or so, and that would be a more
realistic expectation for any NJA Captain making the move.
My intent here is not combative at all, rather to foster open debate and share views with
other professionals. Even you!

 

[Ultra Grump]

Lastly all NJA and NJI pilots are now on a “Virtual Seniority List at NJI for all purposes for which seniority is used at NJI.” This could be construed to be the same as it always has at NJI. Seniority for the purpose of upgrade in the GIV is by date of hire IN THE GULFSTREAM regardless of previous NJA, EJM, and etc. time in service. Same for Upgrade to Captain in the GV. If it goes this way we will have the highest paid F/O’s in the world for 4-6 years.[/font]

Actually, nobody is "now on" the virtual seniority list, as it is still being worked on by the union and the company.
Captain positions will be based on the virtual seniority list. I guarantee you that list won't be based on Gulfstream DOH. Captains moving from NJA to NJI no longer have to quit NJA to make the move, so your description of how it's always been does not apply. The language:
"NJA employees will be offered on the basis of NJA seniority one-third of the NJI GIV Captain posted vacancies"
One third of the Captain positions will be awarded to NJA employees, based on NJA seniority. They will not be the "highest-paid FO's in the world'" though I'm sure you'd prefer it that way.