Pilots making the NJA/NJI move!

[batsky2000]

I think what you list sounded good to most but not all, if you give date of hire, that would put just about all of the f/o's on the bottom of the list with no chance to upgrade in the G aircraft, I would say that a fence would need to be in place to protect all of the f/o's who want to upgrade in the G

Yes you have some great work rules, but some are not, at NJI we do not get perdium and we don't want it either, it works out better for us to be able to expense all of our meals since we travel outside the country so much, your Int'l rate would not even come close to what we pay in some places, your contract would force us to use perdium

About the pay, yes, the pic pay is very good, but your f/o pay is about $20,000 less than what our f/o's make here, so you would be taking money away from our f/o's and I am talking about salary with no other pay.

I think that there would have to be some tweaking done with what we have and with what you have and combine the 2 some how, or if there is an integration, then maybe we can keep what we have and amend the contract to reflect that, who knows, I just hope for a fair and friendly integration if and when it happens, 3 years is still a ways away

In the mean time lets all just get along and keep the owners happy

 

[CastofThousands]

If on one hand the Union is put in the position of having to meet resistance every step of the way it is unlikely that existing Gulfstream pilots will be offered "super seniority" rights. On the other hand, if pilots at NJI elect to work with the Union and the NJA pilot group toward an amicable solution, we can jointly venture a number of available options and solutions.

With reference to compensation parity the Union's purposed solution was to amalgamate NJI work rules for NJI related operations. In addition, the Union proposed compensation above what pilots currently earn at NJI. The major difference being additional compensation related to work rules and premium pay for "at will" job appointments such as instructor or check airman positions.

The Union offered very non-combative and operationally sensitive solutions that were dismissed by management at the expense of every NJI pilot. The goal is not to build contentiousness by way of a festering wounds, which currently exist and will continue to persist with time until the issue is resolved. The goal is to build a long-term career path offering one of the best opportunities in aviation while focusing on growth and profits for employees and shareholders. Unfortunately, this issue is so significant it will forever disrupt that focus. Unless some intelligent and mature business minds sit down and resolve this issue, one side will always look at the other as the red headed stepchild. The issue will never just fade into the background, people must be willing to address it; in a responsible "good for business" way.

Nonetheless, we currently find ourselves in a period of labor tranquility - so yes, every pilot should focus on safety and service. We will revisit these issue within the next few years.

Respectfully,

 

[Grizz]

Cast sounds like a reasonable fellow.

 

[Fozzy]

Who was that masked man?????

 

[flywest]

Yes you have some great work rules, but some are not, at NJI we do not get perdium and we don't want it either, it works out better for us to be able to expense all of our meals since we travel outside the country so much, your Int'l rate would not even come close to what we pay in some places, your contract would force us to use perdium

Bat-

Actually, we are allowed to use per diem, or go on "meal receipts" for all international operations. Please see below:

20.2 Meal Receipts and Meal Allowance Rates
Meal receipts, at the pilot’s election, will be in effect for all operations conducted outside the continental U.S. (“OCONUS”) or Foreign Operations. Meal receipts will begin at the time of departure from the continental U.S. and will end at arrival to the continental United States. A Crewmember may elect to continue on the hourly rate, if so desired, upon departing the continental United States, but may not mix the two options while away from the continental United States. The Director of Operations, or his designee, may consider increasing the maximum amounts contained in this Section on a case-by-case basis.

20.2(a) Within the continental U.S. (“CONUS”): The meal allowance is $1.70 per hour.

20.2(b) “OCONUS” and Foreign Operations: A pilot electing to continue on the hourly rate shall receive a meal allowance of $2.50 per hour

Regards,
Flywest

 

[ozpilot]

Cast sounds like a reasonable fellow.

Hi Grizz

Sorry I'm going to miss you in TOL, but congrats on the upgrade! I too am impressed by "Cast". Clearly he has a greater insight on what is going on in 1108 than have most on this board, including me.

If he is who I think he is ('respectfully' ?! ) then I welcome his input here!

 

[gutshotdraw]

Cast does indeed sound like a reasonable fellow. Nevertheless, it will not be up to him, 1108, or the NJI pilots. The legal process will run its course, the NMB will decide, and everyone will deal with the decision. How hard the union tries or how determined they are is beside the point.

The idea of NJI pilots unionizing or creating a bargaining "voice" in order to negotiate some sort of integration prior to an NMB petition is a dead issue. There is no infrastructure in place for such a "voice" nor is there any clamor among NJI pilots to create one.

For some reason, 1108 leadership, (including a friend of mine), keep telling NJI pilots to "get on board now or get screwed in three years." There is no way for us to get on board even if we wanted to and the vast majority don't want to. I believe most have decided that if the status quo changes in the future, and they don't like the changes, they will simply leave. If the changes are for the better or a wash, they will stay.

If, as Cast claims, the goal is simply to have all NJI hiring done from among 1108 members and not from off the street, I have no problem with that. After all, 2 of every 5 NJI new hires are now 1108 members. But you'll have a tough time selling the NJI pilot group on a wholesale conversion to a union shop and all the changes that would come with it.

 

[NJANJIFLEXFLOP]

Gutshot you have great points. I agree with you too and have never wanted to be represented by a union. However I see the simple reason for wanting integration. At NJA they have very very few Class 4 and 5 aircraft. Having the gulfstream in the pot would open up 49 new class 4 slots for those pigs to jump in and slop around. However all the fear that is spread on this pathetic thread doesnt work for the NJI work force. Besides alot of our flight attendants make more money than some of their pilots. So Mr Cast......if you "Cast" your net into empty waters you reap nothing.......that is unless all of your followers are under the water helping you out....they wont hold their breath that long.

 

[CastofThousands]

The Union's obligation...

It is all the same to 1108, strictly business in the best interest of the pilots the Union represents. I respect the opinions expressed on this message board, and the desire of a pilot not to be represented by the Union. But, worrying about the pilot who doesn't desire union representation is not the Union's job.

I don't care to interject emotion into this topic. The reality is the Union is obligated to secure job opportunities offering job security, professional wages, benefits, and working conditions. I strongly believe when armed with accurate information pilots make wise decisions. Nonetheless, I have no intentions other than respecting all pilots, as pilots, and ensuring the Union meets its obligations.

There is a strong leadership group at Local 1108. A comprehensive survey just completed by the Wilson Center for Public Research (third party) demonstrates a level of pilot support never seen before in pilot unions. This is the case simply because the Local 1108 Union leadership focuses on what I just mentioned above. It is obvious I am associated with that leadership group, but I am only a small component. They are a driven group, and I am convinced many of them don't sleep or eat. It is clear they can't stomach failure, and I doubt they intend to change any time soon.

That being said, their drive is for the profession as a whole. The 1108 is truly a group of professional pilot advocates. They have no intention of pitting pilot against pilot; in fact, quite the opposite. I can say with absolute certainty 1108 was pleased when NJI pilots receive an all 7&7 schedule and wage increases as a result of the NJA Pilot CBA. What happens over the next few years will be a result of "the process." Rest assured 1108 would rather see wise business decisions, rather than fight over the obvious or inevitable.

If the NJI pilots elect to form a committee of pilots to meet with NJA pilots everyone would end up better off. The idea that management is making decisions that subjects NJI pilots to the unknown is beyond me. Unfortunately, one side or the other is going to end up feeling victimized and that will resonate into a growing festering wound. I simply want to convey that the Union is approaching this with an open mind, in the best interest of pilots and good business. That way neither side can say; "nobody told me that."

Respectfully,

 

[gutshotdraw]

If the NJI pilots elect to form a committee of pilots to meet with NJA pilots everyone would end up better off.

Even those NJI pilots who hope for an integration aren't stupid enough to be involved in anything that remotely smacks of organizing a non-union shop. The response from management is too much of a wild card and the NLRA doesn't provide sufficient protection.

It is a dead issue. You'll just have to wait like the rest of us for the NMB's decision sometime in early '08.

By the way, I don't doubt that the membership is very happy with the 1108 leadership and they should be. But, if you think the Wilson Center is an independent third party, then you are probably unfamiliar with the term "poll pushing" too.