Pilots expected to picket Warren Buffett-owned NetJets

[BentOver]

Your biggest downfall will be all the years of NJA pilots saying " we're not an airline!"

But now you all want to be directly compared to airline pilots.... If I were management I'd point this out

 

[gunfyter]

Your biggest downfall will be all the years of NJA pilots saying " we're not an airline!"

But now you all want to be directly compared to airline pilots.... If I were management I'd point this out

I'm looking at my certificate ... It says Airline Transport Pilot ....

Next!

 

[BentOver]

I'm looking at my certificate ... It says Airline Transport Pilot ....

Next!

Obviously....but for the last how many years has the quote always been " we're not an airline" typically for good reason...

Unfortunately the tables have turned and the airlines are back on top... But it wouldn't take long for management to find Union rhetoric stating " we're not an airline....." And no matter how insignificant, some judge without a clue could use that

 

[MasterOfYaw]

Okay, assuming we take that argument at face value, shouldn't you also account for costs per hour of flight?

Merely trying to refute the argument that NJ doesn't make enough to pay us because or planes are "small". Our mid and large cabin planes generate plenty of revenue compared to their airline brethren. I don't doubt the company having to adjust the business model (away from the lower revenue aircraft) once they pay us a wage more in line with the going rate, but that is their job. Same as when any other business cost goes up. If competition keeps you from adjusting prices to cover the cost, you shrink your marginal product lines and shift toward the more productive assets which have less competition. A company which says they can only survive by paying well below the going rate for one of their costs and refuses to adjust the business model to recognize the current reality is unlikely to be around for the long haul. I sincerely hope that's not us.

 

[imacdog]

Obviously....but for the last how many years has the quote always been " we're not an airline" typically for good reason...

Unfortunately the tables have turned and the airlines are back on top... But it wouldn't take long for management to find Union rhetoric stating " we're not an airline....." And no matter how insignificant, some judge without a clue could use that

We aren't an airline. What we do demands far more from our pilots than airline pilots.

 

[ghostrider64]

We aren't an airline. What we do demands far more from our pilots than airline pilots.

Absolutely correct, and multiple times a day, with longer days. There is no doubt if we provide bad service, ala airlines, we will hear about it. In other words our level of jeopardy is ten fold that of any other group of pilots. Exposure to pax unknown, with unknown demands, saying the wrong thing at the wrong time could lead rapidly to the street. When was the last time any of us, traveling in civies, had an I depth conversation with the cockpit crew? Hell most of the time they are hiding behind a closed cockpit door.

All of this said, we demand pay commensurate with the hours we work, and the days away from our families. We serve the wealthy, they should respect us enough to ensure we have very few financial and healthcare worries at home, while we are flying for THEM!

 

[FamilyGuy]

Well if you go by passenger count then Fedex pilots are grossly overpaid.

Nice deflection.

I?m still waiting for you to provide your apples to apples comparison. Which Delta fleet do you think NJ should be compared to and what is your rationale for that choice?

 

[FamilyGuy]

FamilyGuy,

How about you keep the negotiating in the negotiating room? You know our price.

Who is negotiating? I?m merely offering rebuttals to points made here by others and asking some questions to try and clarify what people are saying.

I?m all in favor of keeping the negotiating in the negotiating room, but doesn?t that apply equally to both sides?

I think a lot of progress is being made with AJ and Bill at the helm and we should all let the two teams of negotiators hammer out a deal that works for both sides.

 

[FamilyGuy]

No I am saying NJA pay is 49% of Delta pay

The site is wrong about Delta pilot pay .... unless they are talking about 1st year pay. Then it would be approximately correct 56875 v 106K for Delta.

Perhaps it is wrong about some of the other occupation pay as well ... Find out what Delta pays for your job and multiply by 49%. Since NJ flies small planes we all need to work for 49% of Delta, no?

Don't tell me you aren't happy with 49% of Delta! :bawling:

Gunfyter -I can see where you get the $56,875 for 1st year FO at NJ, but I don't see where you are getting $106k for a first year FO at Delta. $106k for a first year pilot at Delta looks like a first year Captain pay. Surely you didn't mean to compare FO and CPT payscales?

 

[gunfyter]

Gunfyter -I can see where you get the $56,875 for 1st year FO at NJ, but I don't see where you are getting $106k for a first year FO at Delta. $106k for a first year pilot at Delta looks like a first year Captain pay. Surely you didn't mean to compare FO and CPT payscales?

I got the $106k from you.

No captain at Delta makes $106K

 

[FamilyGuy]

Our mid and large cabin planes generate plenty of revenue compared to their airline brethren. I don't doubt the company having to adjust the business model (away from the lower revenue aircraft) once they pay us a wage more in line with the going rate, but that is their job. Same as when any other business cost goes up. If competition keeps you from adjusting prices to cover the cost, you shrink your marginal product lines and shift toward the more productive assets which have less competition. A company which says they can only survive by paying well below the going rate for one of their costs and refuses to adjust the business model to recognize the current reality is unlikely to be around for the long haul. I sincerely hope that's not us.

It sounds like you are advocating that NetJets get out of the smaller cabin aircraft. Is that accurate?

NJA is not a well diversified company, so which product lines would you suggest management shrink or eliminate? The small cabin fleet since they generate the smallest profits?

 

[Diesel]

Nice deflection.

I?m still waiting for you to provide your apples to apples comparison. Which Delta fleet do you think NJ should be compared to and what is your rationale for that choice?

I'm still waiting for you to understand self worth.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's deflection.

 

[Diesel]

I got the $106k from you.

No captain at Delta makes $106K

Exactly because they understand their self worth.

People like familyguy will never get it. He will never understand what it takes to be a pilot but because he's able to type on a keyboard and hide behind a screen name on a pilot website he's an authority.

It really is laughable. I like the banter but in the end his thoughts are worthless. Well unless you're at SBA then he can pontificate all he wants.

 

[gunfyter]

I made it simple for you. SWA instead of Delta

Southwest F/O pay
Southwest Airlines Airline Pilot (First Officer) Salaries

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Sou...er.jobTitleExact=Airline+Pilot+(First+Officer)

Base Salary

$192,718
$105k - $272k
▶.......

Now you know longer have to ask the question of which aircraft...

As you can see NJ f/o's make less than half of that. So since this company flies smaller planes than SW ... perhaps everyone, not just the pilots should be making 49% of SouthWest.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I got the $106k from you.

No captain at Delta makes $106K

Nice try. The $106k number came from the link you originally provided, and I questioned as being obviously wrong.

 

[gunfyter]

Nice try. The $106k number came from the link you originally provided, and I questioned as being obviously wrong.

And I said the pilot salaries are wrong. I have no idea if the other salaries are right.

But I do know our pilots make about half of what airlines are getting now. I just think if thats the standard it should apply to you as well

 

[FamilyGuy]

I'm still waiting for you to understand self worth.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's deflection.

I understand self worth quite well.

I learned a long time ago that self worth is not connected to how much money you make.

Case in point - JH made a lot of money but wasn't worth much.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I made it simple for you. SWA instead of Delta

Southwest F/O pay
Southwest Airlines Airline Pilot (First Officer) Salaries

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Sou...er.jobTitleExact=Airline+Pilot+(First+Officer)

Base Salary

$192,718
$105k - $272k
▶.......

Now you know longer have to ask the question of which aircraft...

As you can see NJ f/o's make less than half of that. So since this company flies smaller planes than SW ... perhaps everyone, not just the pilots should be making 49% of SouthWest.

The link you provided didn't show any salaries. Glassdoor was also the link you provided earlier for Delta salaries that we both agreed was wrong.

I looked at the SWA FO payscale here - http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/southwest_airlines

and found that their hourly rate is $57 for first year FOs, which is less than Delta, and works out to roughly the same as NJ.

Granted, their payscale increases rapidly after the first year, so some work does need to be done there.

 

[Diesel]

I understand self worth quite well.

I learned a long time ago that self worth is not connected to how much money you make.

Case in point - JH made a lot of money but wasn't worth much.

Actually that isn't case in point. He might have believed he was worth that much and made sure he was paid that. Whether you think he should have been paid that is irrelevant. WB sure thought he was worth it.

That's what people tell themselves when they have to accept less than their counterparts to justify a job.

Have you looked at what a delta employee makes doing the same job as you?

 

[fischman]

Who is negotiating? I?m merely offering rebuttals to points made here by others and asking some questions to try and clarify what people are saying.

I?m all in favor of keeping the negotiating in the negotiating room, but doesn?t that apply equally to both sides?

I think a lot of progress is being made with AJ and Bill at the helm and we should all let the two teams of negotiators hammer out a deal that works for both sides.

Uh-huh... How is STW doing?