Pilots expected to picket Warren Buffett-owned NetJets

[Diesel]

That's the most obvious comparison, but I'm open to using others.

I'd just like to understand what you think is fair and the rationale for using that particular comparison.

Well if you go by passenger count then Fedex pilots are grossly overpaid.

 

[fischman]

FamilyGuy,

How about you keep the negotiating in the negotiating room? You know our price.

 

[gunfyter]

The link you provided says that Delta pilots get paid an average of $106,403. Are you saying NetJets pilots are currently only getting $52,137 on average?

No I am saying NJA pay is 49% of Delta pay

The site is wrong about Delta pilot pay .... unless they are talking about 1st year pay. Then it would be approximately correct 56875 v 106K for Delta.

Perhaps it is wrong about some of the other occupation pay as well ... Find out what Delta pays for your job and multiply by 49%. Since NJ flies small planes we all need to work for 49% of Delta, no?

Don't tell me you aren't happy with 49% of Delta! :bawling:



http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/delta_air_lines

 

[Diesel]

FamilyGuy,

How about you keep the negotiating in the negotiating room? You know our price.

He can't do that. He has to try it out here to see what floats and what doesn't.

 

[imacdog]

Okay, assuming we take that argument at face value, shouldn't you also account for costs per hour of flight?

You sure you want to go down the road of how many support personnel are required for an airliner versus two NJA pilots taking care of all ancillary duties in addition to flying?

 

[BentOver]

Your biggest downfall will be all the years of NJA pilots saying " we're not an airline!"

But now you all want to be directly compared to airline pilots.... If I were management I'd point this out

 

[gunfyter]

Your biggest downfall will be all the years of NJA pilots saying " we're not an airline!"

But now you all want to be directly compared to airline pilots.... If I were management I'd point this out

I'm looking at my certificate ... It says Airline Transport Pilot ....

Next!

 

[BentOver]

I'm looking at my certificate ... It says Airline Transport Pilot ....

Next!

Obviously....but for the last how many years has the quote always been " we're not an airline" typically for good reason...

Unfortunately the tables have turned and the airlines are back on top... But it wouldn't take long for management to find Union rhetoric stating " we're not an airline....." And no matter how insignificant, some judge without a clue could use that

 

[MasterOfYaw]

Okay, assuming we take that argument at face value, shouldn't you also account for costs per hour of flight?

Merely trying to refute the argument that NJ doesn't make enough to pay us because or planes are "small". Our mid and large cabin planes generate plenty of revenue compared to their airline brethren. I don't doubt the company having to adjust the business model (away from the lower revenue aircraft) once they pay us a wage more in line with the going rate, but that is their job. Same as when any other business cost goes up. If competition keeps you from adjusting prices to cover the cost, you shrink your marginal product lines and shift toward the more productive assets which have less competition. A company which says they can only survive by paying well below the going rate for one of their costs and refuses to adjust the business model to recognize the current reality is unlikely to be around for the long haul. I sincerely hope that's not us.

 

[imacdog]

Obviously....but for the last how many years has the quote always been " we're not an airline" typically for good reason...

Unfortunately the tables have turned and the airlines are back on top... But it wouldn't take long for management to find Union rhetoric stating " we're not an airline....." And no matter how insignificant, some judge without a clue could use that

We aren't an airline. What we do demands far more from our pilots than airline pilots.

 

[ghostrider64]

We aren't an airline. What we do demands far more from our pilots than airline pilots.

Absolutely correct, and multiple times a day, with longer days. There is no doubt if we provide bad service, ala airlines, we will hear about it. In other words our level of jeopardy is ten fold that of any other group of pilots. Exposure to pax unknown, with unknown demands, saying the wrong thing at the wrong time could lead rapidly to the street. When was the last time any of us, traveling in civies, had an I depth conversation with the cockpit crew? Hell most of the time they are hiding behind a closed cockpit door.

All of this said, we demand pay commensurate with the hours we work, and the days away from our families. We serve the wealthy, they should respect us enough to ensure we have very few financial and healthcare worries at home, while we are flying for THEM!

 

[FamilyGuy]

Well if you go by passenger count then Fedex pilots are grossly overpaid.

Nice deflection.

I?m still waiting for you to provide your apples to apples comparison. Which Delta fleet do you think NJ should be compared to and what is your rationale for that choice?

 

[FamilyGuy]

FamilyGuy,

How about you keep the negotiating in the negotiating room? You know our price.

Who is negotiating? I?m merely offering rebuttals to points made here by others and asking some questions to try and clarify what people are saying.

I?m all in favor of keeping the negotiating in the negotiating room, but doesn?t that apply equally to both sides?

I think a lot of progress is being made with AJ and Bill at the helm and we should all let the two teams of negotiators hammer out a deal that works for both sides.

 

[FamilyGuy]

No I am saying NJA pay is 49% of Delta pay

The site is wrong about Delta pilot pay .... unless they are talking about 1st year pay. Then it would be approximately correct 56875 v 106K for Delta.

Perhaps it is wrong about some of the other occupation pay as well ... Find out what Delta pays for your job and multiply by 49%. Since NJ flies small planes we all need to work for 49% of Delta, no?

Don't tell me you aren't happy with 49% of Delta! :bawling:

Gunfyter -I can see where you get the $56,875 for 1st year FO at NJ, but I don't see where you are getting $106k for a first year FO at Delta. $106k for a first year pilot at Delta looks like a first year Captain pay. Surely you didn't mean to compare FO and CPT payscales?

 

[gunfyter]

Gunfyter -I can see where you get the $56,875 for 1st year FO at NJ, but I don't see where you are getting $106k for a first year FO at Delta. $106k for a first year pilot at Delta looks like a first year Captain pay. Surely you didn't mean to compare FO and CPT payscales?

I got the $106k from you.

No captain at Delta makes $106K