"Pilots don't mind making $16,000 per year because it's a stepping stone."

[LanceAir]

Learn your job, do it right. I know my job. I do it right. The basic fact is, this job is NOT hard. It just isn't.

Have you ever worked hard? I mean, you know, worked? Studying your OM doesn't count as hard work. Knowing your procedures doesn't count either. Actually DOING your procedures...nope, not hard. In fact, I find flying standard easier than flying non-standard. (Everyone is on the same page.)

So tell me, oh hard working one, where does the hard work come in? Being on duty for 16 hours isn't desirable, but it isn't difficult. Flying for 6 legs a day is a lot of work, but it isn't difficult. Occasionally things happen to get your blood pressure up. They are RARE.

Working hard, and hard work are different things. This job is not hard work.

D00che... (nuff said)

 

[Grey Ghost]

This is almost as nauseating to watch as "The Real Housewives of New Jersey"!uke:

 

[30West]

I would seriously ask those of you who say otherwise whether or not you have ever had a job outside of aviation with any real responsibility? I know we have highly specialized training that takes many years and many thousands of dollars to develop. I know that we are responsible for many lives.

*And you wouldn't consider the above "real" responsibility?


Medicine is constantly undergoing research and Physicians learn better techniques all the time

*You could replace Medicine with Aviation and Physicians with Pilots. Do you not always strive to learn more about your career as well as improve your techniques? The job only becomes "easy" when you become satisfied with your own level of knowledge and proficiency. I hope you're not implying that as an FO you've finally reached the top of the ladder and that there is nothing more you can learn or do to better yourself?

.....

 

[Speedtape]

Well said, Joe Pilot!

We need more like you in our Profession that approach their job with the same diligence, attitude, and understanding. You Get It! Thanks for the well thought out post!

 

[joe_pilot]

30West,

At first I didn't even notice you said anything because your comments were inside the quotes you placed around my post. Anyway:

*And you wouldn't consider the above "real" responsibility?

I absolutely do. I know very well how much responsibility Airline pilots take on every day. I was responding to the people who talk about how "hard this job is". I have noticed a trend among those people who have never had a job outside of aviation with any real responsibilities. For example, working at the driving range isn't hard. Being the cashier at the bowling alley isn't hard. Those jobs (and many others, like them) have few responsibilities and are not good examples, again IMO, of "hard jobs".

Note: I am not disparaging driving range workers or bowling alley cashiers.

*You could replace Medicine with Aviation and Physicians with Pilots. Do you not always strive to learn more about your career as well as improve your techniques?

Again, I think you have missed my point entirely. You cannot replace those words like you suggest, at least not in the context of what I was trying to say. My point was that the entire field of aviation knows more about aviation (aerodynamics, safety of flight, human factors, technical advancements, etc.) than the entire medical field knows about the human body and how it works by at least an order of magnitude.

The job only becomes "easy" when you become satisfied with your own level of knowledge and proficiency.

Did you even read my first paragraph? I never "phone it in". Constantly striving to improve one's knowledge and proficiency is one of the hallmarks of being a professional pilot. And I will say it again:

This job is the easiest job I have ever had.

I hope you're not implying that as an FO you've finally reached the top of the ladder and that there is nothing more you can learn or do to better yourself?

Seriously, how do you get this from anything I said? But you know what? Since QOL is so important to me, I really have reached the top of the ladder. At least from a pay standpoint. Until I can hold the great trips I'm holding now as a senior FO, I won't be upgrading anytime soon. (Guys at my company know the date I put my upgrade bid in for. It's a running joke!)

Look, I don't know if I insulted you or if you have a really crappy job. If it's the first case, let's talk about it. If it's the second, then find a better job if you can.

Either way, I'm sorry about it.

-JP

 

[livin'thesim]

The ROI on a $100k investment will not be very good in this industry.

I did the local FBO route and had paid off my flight training by the time I was flying checks. At the regional where I worked, I knew guys still paying $500 per month, I don't know how they did it.

This job is harsh enough economically without carrying that kind of debt around.

 

[Nindiri]

I have to agree, this job is incredibly easy. I show up, fly nice airplanes around the country for 2 or 3 days, then go home with absolutely no responsibilities until next time I check in to fly. Off 15 - 18 days a month and paid well for my time. Life is good.

 

[BoeingBaller]

$35,000?? Unless you're Robert Barone, that wouldn't cover the cost of an average mortgage, school loans, utilities, car payment, insurance, and food per month! You need at least $50k just to pay that plus other things like insurance, and car gas etc. That's without putting even $1 in savings. ESPECIALLY when you're starting off in the hole (16k) it will take more money, and a greater period of time to recoup that loss.

I get it, I chose it too, but I do lose sleep over that. If 35-50 is acceptable to people, then I guess I'd better plan on finding a new career since I cant limbo that low...

Finally some one that gets it....

 

[Kalifornia]

I have to agree, this job is incredibly easy. I show up, fly nice airplanes around the country for 2 or 3 days, then go home with absolutely no responsibilities until next time I check in to fly. Off 15 - 18 days a month and paid well for my time. Life is good.

You and Joe Pilot sure make a cute couple. So now you've fallen into the luxuries of having a nice FO senior line (a byproduct of luck, patience perhaps, timing....for now until your company runs into trouble as airlines comically do) and want the rest of us to know how poor you are as FOs. Because the posts seem to imply that you just let the CA worry about the flight while you sit back and relax. Here's where you idiocy shines through, you probably tell everyone including management, that is unless you aren't indeed part of a cut-throat chief pilot's office, how easy you have it which is all the more reason for someone to cut your fluff lifestyle down. But if it strokes your ego, continue to let some wonder 18 year olds on here know so they can undercut your pay and lifestyle in the future. Cause dude, I'd be happy with 12-13 days off a month and 20 bucks an hour to fly a 737.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Tell me where else you can work 3 days a week, and make between $40,000 and $100,000? Obviously not all at once, but within 3 years you are near or over 40. Then, working your way to 100 as a captain for the next 15 years.

Not as good as it used to be, but my job certainly is not that hard. My previous career paid a lot more, but I won't "work" for a living ever ever ever again.

You're funny.
My airlines CEO recently met with the pilot group and one of the fo's was complaining to him about the low pay. The CEO responded with somthing that reminded me of your statement. He said "Where else can you make what you already make, only working 1/2 the year." He then said "If you want to earn more money, get another part time job".

You shouldn't accept substandard wages because you're lucky enough to only work 3 days per week. It's not a trade off.

 

[kf4amu]

You're funny.
My airlines CEO recently met with the pilot group and one of the fo's was complaining to him about the low pay. The CEO responded with somthing that reminded me of your statement. He said "Where else can you make what you already make, only working 1/2 the year."

F/O shoulda replied "Firefighter/EMT....except I'd be making more and have a pension, and be responsible for many fewer lives than I am now".

 

[waka]

Registered Nurse (RN) or Pharmacists, and they are cleaning up. They can hit that $100,000 the first year.

I disagree with ASA_Aviator's sentiment. However, a first year RN or a Pharmacist should make more, way more than a hot shot pilot mill grad that went for zero time to RJ FO in a year. Now, if the standards are raised for regional airline new-hires, then larger first year earnings can be discussed. Even then, it shouldn't be anywhere near $100,000, not even half of that.

 

[trainer8]

Registered Nurse (RN) or Pharmacists, and they are cleaning up. They can hit that $100,000 the first year.

That's not likely or normal.

Average starting pay in the USA for an RN is $54K including signing bonuses and tuition stipends, less, if you work in an 8-5 private practice.

If you are a BSN that increases about $10K/yr, and if you specialize into Nurse Manager or Nurse Practitioner, your up to $75K to $100K, depending on the region in the USA you are working.

Pharmacology "starts" depend on qualifications/degree and whether your working for a chain (CVS, Walgreens, etc) or a pharm company (Merck, American Cyanamid, Lederle Labs, etc).

My sister-in-law graduated from PCPS 15 years ago with a B.S. in Pharmacology and started two weeks after graduatiing for CVS in NJ managing 3 pharmacies...$57K. Today starting salaries for her qualifications are in the $80K range and max out after 20 years at around $105K. (source - http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Pharmacist/Salary/by_Years_Experience)

T8

 

[CopilotDoug]

F/O shoulda replied "Firefighter/EMT....except I'd be making more and have a pension...

...and have job stability...and not be forced to work until age 65 because 2 or 3 furloughs and starting over at the bottom does wonders for the retirement

 

[Nindiri]

You and Joe Pilot sure make a cute couple. So now you've fallen into the luxuries of having a nice FO senior line (a byproduct of luck, patience perhaps, timing....for now until your company runs into trouble as airlines comically do) and want the rest of us to know how poor you are as FOs. Because the posts seem to imply that you just let the CA worry about the flight while you sit back and relax. Here's where you idiocy shines through, you probably tell everyone including management, that is unless you aren't indeed part of a cut-throat chief pilot's office, how easy you have it which is all the more reason for someone to cut your fluff lifestyle down. But if it strokes your ego, continue to let some wonder 18 year olds on here know so they can undercut your pay and lifestyle in the future. Cause dude, I'd be happy with 12-13 days off a month and 20 bucks an hour to fly a 737.

<shrugs>

It's not my fault if you find flying difficult. Perhaps you should request additional remedial training.