"Pilots don't mind making $16,000 per year because it's a stepping stone."

[CX880]

Tell me where else you can work 3 days a week, and make between $40,000 and $100,000? Obviously not all at once, but within 3 years you are near or over 40. Then, working your way to 100 as a captain for the next 15 years.

Not as good as it used to be, but my job certainly is not that hard. My previous career paid a lot more, but I won't "work" for a living ever ever ever again.

Thank god I can say you're an idiot on here. You must be one of those guys that still has a happy smile while they're lubing you up for penetration with something positve to say about that as well. 20K, 40K after whenever and 100k after 15 years is nothing for what a pilot sacrifices, like being gone more than half of his or her year.

 

[Kalifornia]

go through med school and become an intern and then residence and see how much you are paid. Lots of professional jobs have a low salary when you start - I have absolutely no problem with first year regional pilots making 16k in a couple of years they are making 35 and a couple of more they are pushing 50. I don't lose sleep with that. I am much more concerned with folks that have been working somewhere 20 years and have been downgraded, lost their pensions and are doomed to retire in a few years.

Both you and ASA are pathetically clueless. A med school intern as I understand it makes 40 grand a year start. More importantly once a doctor is fully qualified, they can shift around from different employers without starting over at a terrible wage. Additionally, a doctor can only kill one person at a time with a bad mistake where as a pilot crossing a runway at the wrong time, can take out hundreds depending on size of aircraft which is why bigger pays better. Sometimes the hardest part of the job is stay focused and vigilant enough not to make complacent mistakes. And then it's luck of the draw whether your skills and knowledge are required to handle a loss of both engines, fire, or other extreme scenario.

Don't think you're safe either being a live in base career guy at ASA. ACA went out of business, Skyways went of business, Air Wisconsin switched from serving the Midwest and Denver to becoming an East Coast carrier. I just wouldn't be surprised if you're cuddling with the chief pilot, clueless when it comes to finances, or live some secluded backwoods lifestyle. You've really lost touch if you think paying dues on $16 grand a year is fair and safe.

 

[jmreii]

Tell me where else you can work 3 days a week, and make between $40,000 and $100,000? Obviously not all at once, but within 3 years you are near or over 40. Then, working your way to 100 as a captain for the next 15 years.

Not as good as it used to be, but my job certainly is not that hard. My previous career paid a lot more, but I won't "work" for a living ever ever ever again.

Registered Nurse (RN) or Pharmacists, and they are cleaning up. They can hit that $100,000 the first year.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

ASA Aviator-

You're not paid to fly the normal stuff...you are paid to handle the non-normal stuff. I would think with your experience you would recognize that difference. You started this career from a previous one that made a decent amount of money (based on your comments). That is quite different from those of us that went to college and then worked our way's up to where we are today. Perhaps if you looked at it from the point of view of not starting with money, you might have a different opinion.

 

[Speedtape]

As they say, you get what you negotiate or what you are willing to accept. It is what it is! No two jobs are the same in benefits, wages, or job security.

What was any different when you decided to go into this Profession?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Learn your job, do it right. I know my job. I do it right. The basic fact is, this job is NOT hard. It just isn't.

Have you ever worked hard? I mean, you know, worked? Studying your OM doesn't count as hard work. Knowing your procedures doesn't count either. Actually DOING your procedures...nope, not hard. In fact, I find flying standard easier than flying non-standard. (Everyone is on the same page.)

So tell me, oh hard working one, where does the hard work come in? Being on duty for 16 hours isn't desirable, but it isn't difficult. Flying for 6 legs a day is a lot of work, but it isn't difficult. Occasionally things happen to get your blood pressure up. They are RARE.

Working hard, and hard work are different things. This job is not hard work.

Yeah...we know your type...the Blissfully Ignorant ones whose last screams will be heard on the CVR after it's pulled from the smoking wreckage.

Glad you're impressed with yourself. Nobody else seems to be.

 

[say again]

Yeah...we know your type...the Blissfully Ignorant ones whose last screams will be heard on the CVR after it's pulled from the smoking wreckage.

Glad you're impressed with yourself. Nobody else seems to be.

It's not a hard job at all. I certainly dont agree w/ him on the pay issue, but he's right on the "hard work" issue.

 

[Kalifornia]

It's not a hard job at all. I certainly dont agree w/ him on the pay issue, but he's right on the "hard work" issue.

No, it's not "hard work" as in designing a marketing scheme that will satisfy a corporate project manager or "hard work" as in roofing a house in 90 degree weather. But it is "hard work" on day 3 after minimal rest and a long duty day period to deal with an abnormal situation in abnormal weather with a normal flight attendant (which means he/she is abnormal) and trying your best to satisfy the chief pilot, the dispatcher, ATC, the FA, the FAA, and the passengers without becoming the lead story on CNN. The hard working marketing guy and roofer are not going be discussed at length in the media if they screw up.

 

[makersmarc]

Learn your job, do it right. I know my job. I do it right. The basic fact is, this job is NOT hard. It just isn't.

Have you ever worked hard? I mean, you know, worked? Studying your OM doesn't count as hard work. Knowing your procedures doesn't count either. Actually DOING your procedures...nope, not hard. In fact, I find flying standard easier than flying non-standard. (Everyone is on the same page.)

So tell me, oh hard working one, where does the hard work come in? Being on duty for 16 hours isn't desirable, but it isn't difficult. Flying for 6 legs a day is a lot of work, but it isn't difficult. Occasionally things happen to get your blood pressure up. They are RARE.

Working hard, and hard work are different things. This job is not hard work.

Where do you work? THAT'S where I want to work!

 

[joe_pilot]

As an FO who takes his job quite seriously (I check detailed weather before getting to the airport, loads, delays, arrive to the plane early, get everything setup if the Captain isn't there yet, everything I'm supposed to do and more) I think I can say that I work as hard as any of the people here. Though I am not the person that signs for the airplane, the company, the FAA and more importantly, the families of the passengers that I carry certainly hold me responsible.

I am pretty senior, don't sit reserve and get pretty good trips. I have had my fair share (even now sometimes) of 16 hour days, bad weather, low fuel, etc., etc. I know how tough and important this job is. I take it quite serious and strive to be a professional in my appearance, my job performance and how I deal with both fellow pilots and passengers.

That being said, this is the easiest job I have had in my life, period.

I would seriously ask those of you who say otherwise whether or not you have ever had a job outside of aviation with any real responsibility? I know we have highly specialized training that takes many years and many thousands of dollars to develop. I know that we are responsible for many lives. I know that we are pretty much unique in that if we switch jobs for whatever reason (furlough, bankruptcy, etc.) that we have to start over at the bottom.

Still, this is an easy job.

Just because I think it is easy does not mean that I am happy about the erosion of pay, QOL and even jobs. I am not. I support (both with my own vote and talking with fellow company pilots) much better work rules and pay. Even though I do love the fact that I get paid to fly, I work to make sure we are compensated properly.

Another thing: While I understand why people do it, comparing pilots that carry passengers to physicians is just wrong. At least in terms of the life and death issue. First of all, only surgeons and anesthesiologists literally hold a patient's life in their hands. The rest just manage your health. Sure, they can miss something, misdiagnose or otherwise make a mistake that results in death, but those instances a pretty rare as a percentage.

So are airline accidents.

To a small degree, the comparison of non-surgical specialties to us is similar, but not the docs who have your chest cut open or are responsible for your breathing and vital signs during surgery. We barely understand the human body (though we think we do). Medicine is constantly undergoing research and Physicians learn better techniques all the time, but we only understand a small percentage of how our bodies actually work. Things can and do go wrong with even the simplest procedures.

Certain Docs quite literally hold a patients life in their hands.

Yes, flying through the air is inherently dangerous. Modern aviation is quite safe, however. We understand pretty damn well how airplanes fly and how to operate them safely. As I said earlier, it requires professionalism, years and years of experience and at times, second by second dedication to the task at hand. But there is another big reason that passenger planes don't crash. We have a built in mechanism for protecting our passengers:

We don't want to die either!

We will do everything possible to keep our own asses safe. If passengers die, odds are we will too. Sure physicians have the risk of guilt over losing a patient, paying higher malpractice insurance or maybe losing their license, but not their own lives. Pilots are paid to fly a plane and keep people alive, but will do so to a large degree because they themselves want to live. Physicians are paid to LITERALLY keep you alive.

Now I'm not saying they should make more or less than we do or that their job is more or less important than ours is. I'm just pointing out that it really isn't an objective comparison. Flame on.

On the other hand, a doctor in a Bonanza (or a VLJ) is another story entirely

-JP