Pilots are pathetic bottomfeeders

[AAflyer]

the mechs and aircraft cleaners don't have as much vested as the pilots do. An A&P could easily get a job at a BMW dealer and make the same if not more. An aircraft cleaner probably didn't spend much toward their training. It's not so easy for a pilot to make a lateral move. Wherever you go, you have to start at the bottom again. I don't blame them for striking, they can easily get a job somewhere else doing something similar for better pay.

So that is the reason we should keep getting less, because we are highly skilled, and too specialized? That's rich.. No wonder NWA wanted to get rid of the bag handlers making 50K, why should they pay that if they can pay RJ pilots 25K.

Interesting, 4 year degree, highly specialized job individual lowers the bar so bag smasher high school grad has to take paycut.. We are going to wipe each other out. And we joke about having that number for truck masters driving school.

AA

 

[viper548]

So that is the reason we should keep getting less, because we are highly skilled, and too specialized? That's rich.. No wonder NWA wanted to get rid of the bag handlers making 50K, why should they pay that if they can pay RJ pilots 25K.

Interesting, 4 year degree, highly specialized job individual lowers the bar so bag smasher high school grad has to take paycut.. We are going to wipe each other out. And we joke about having that number for truck masters driving school.

AA

Pilots should get more because of those reasons

 

[I.P. Freley]

And those that criticize you are either management types, Hitler youth (wannabe policeman check airmen), or those that simply love flying and posess IQ's in excess of 20 points below yours.

So... Are YOU still in the regional business?

 

[apache]

No, I did one even more stupid, after five years in the commuters, I "progressed" to a "major" for three more years flying Boeings. My best year there was $35K with overtime. I flew a few other places but we won't talk about that...........

The "major" I flew for is demanding that the pilot group take a big cut or else file the 1113 with the judge. Looks like if I had stayed there, I might have made nearly $40K next year after DWorthless convinces the sheep to vote in favor of slaughter. But then again, I would be flying a Boeing and that could help fight my feelings of inadequacy and small fallace.......................

I hope that you ask out of curiosity because I can dang sure guarantee that I've earned the right to complain.

 

[V1cutsrfun]

I've flown with people like you, it sux to work with them, people like you will never be happy in life, go on enjoy your restaurant utopia, more restaurants fail then any other business, god help any one around you when THAT doesn't go your way too, you will never be happy at anything.

 

[apache]

Note about the above post. Original text was automatically changed to the word dang. That kind of blows the original forcefulness of my statement and makes it sound gay. The politically-correct software should automatically change the word "gay" to "ALPA".

 

[johnny taliban]

You guys crack me up. Who was it that forced you to take that LOSER JOB in the first place? Did management lie to you about the payscale?? Everyone of you who excepted employment at one of those "sweatshops" knew EXACTLY how much money you were going to make. So why are you complaining about it now? You were foolish to accept the job in the first place and now you are even more foolish to come on this board and complain about. You get to where you hat,you get to call yourself an "airline pilot" and you get to fly a jet. Thats what you signed up for when you accepted the job offer and that is exactly what you are getting. The person the blame for your lame paycheck is YOURSELF.

Johnny

 

[apache]

Yes and no. Plenty of carrots have been dangled in the form of expectations of a good living by the company AND the union at the companies that I've worked for.

Unfortunately, we are in the era of the stick. What concessions management doesn't take, the union will offer. And making things easier for them to do this are those people that will accept less and impune those that dare ask, demand, or even complain about the unfulfilled expectations.

If you are happy with your pay and working conditions, I am truly happy for you. So is management.

 

[I.P. Freley]

No, I did one even more stupid, after five years in the commuters, I "progressed" to a "major" for three more years flying Boeings. My best year there was $35K with overtime. I flew a few other places but we won't talk about that...........

The "major" I flew for is demanding that the pilot group take a big cut or else file the 1113 with the judge. Looks like if I had stayed there, I might have made nearly $40K next year after DWorthless convinces the sheep to vote in favor of slaughter. But then again, I would be flying a Boeing and that could help fight my feelings of inadequacy and small fallace.......................

I hope that you ask out of curiosity because I can dang sure guarantee that I've earned the right to complain.

Darn right I am curious. I am even more curious how you only earned $35k (with overtime!!) at a "major" in your third year there... And look forward to $40k in your FOURTH year? Even with pay cuts I can't wrap my brain around that one.

In any case, you have earned your right to complain (as many of us have), yet I wonder how you think that the person who started this thread is some sort of pied piper of ultimate aviation knowledge for complaining after 18mos in this business. His bitching is exactly that, bitching, and I don't understand how it is that you feel that he's above being criticized... Like he's divined some knowledge of this business that makes him above reproach. You don't need to be management or the equivalent of the Hitler Youth or criminally stupid to recognize that he's complaining about something he should've known about before he rolled up his impressive 18mos in the airline business. Again, even if he somehow was unaware that this business isn't what it used to be, he's still an idiot for not doing his homework. He knew the pay scale when he was hired, and in fact the "new" contract at his company may have given him a raise since he started, depending upon when it was he started. You have no right to complain about pay scales that are equal to or better than that which you signed on for. If the pay was too low to be believed, then you should've turned down your class date... Not take the job and spend the next 18mos complaining about it.

If he started his career at CHQ in mid-2001 or earlier, when everything was still rosy and even lowly turboprop captains were getting hired at majors, he'd perhaps have a basis for his bitterness... But starting at an airline in 2003, maybe even 2004? Complaining that bag-flingers are making more than regional FO's? Nearly what regional captains are making? This is not exactly a new development, and he had ample opportunity to stick with the friggin' restaurant business and send sizzling plates of teriyaki chicken out the swinging door of the kitchen and leave the airline business to people who recognize it for what it is, not what it was long before they took the plunge.

Why you applaud him for bitching about the painfully obvious, I can only imagine. Perhaps next you'll cheer along with him as he complains about the high price of gas, and darn it, he owns a pickup truck and it's the fault of the business that his truck gets 10mpg? Gimme a break.

 

[Snakum]

The fact that you are frustrated and angry gives me orgasmic pleasure

I've said this exact same thing to a couple of my wives. And yes ... they were ex-wives shortly afterward.

Minhommad the BottomFeeder

 

[eastflier]

Hockeypilot well done well done. I could not have said it better. We all need to open our eyes.

 

[Shortapp]

If you don't like what you are doing, move on.


90% of restaurants fail the first year.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

No, I did one even more stupid, after five years in the commuters, I "progressed" to a "major" for three more years flying Boeings. My best year there was $35K with overtime. I flew a few other places but we won't talk about that...........

What were you, a flight attendant?

35k with overtime? Where the heck were you employed and in what position?

 

[say again]

What were you, a flight attendant?

35k with overtime? Where the heck were you employed and in what position?

Maybe he was a cleaner before their new contract!!!!!

 

[MINIME]

Hockey your point is well taken and in most of your observations you appear to be right. Know that this industry is what it is because there's simply too many pilots with too few slots. Example; CAL hiring say...600 pilots within the next few years...months...they have at least 3000 applicants! The numbers are probably similar if not worse at SWA, Airtran, UPS, and FEDEX and everywhere else you can think of.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

First of all Hockey watch your language. Swear all you want but leave the Lord out of it. And God is capitalized. Or perhaps your parents didn't teach that to you.

Are you serious about all this rambling being a two year CHQ pilot? How much time did you have? 600. 800. Wait, maybe you were a 1000 hour pilot. Whoa, that's high time. Any let's see, you had how many types? How much turbine PIC? How much jet time? How much international? How many years as a Chief Pilot or Check Airman? What were you flying? Piper? Cessna? Maybe a big ole PA44? You had no time, no experience, and not much value. That is why the only job you could get was paying $20K. Until your resume shows that you are worth something your pay will resemble such.

There are a thousand other 700 hour guys out there who think somebody owes them a jet (SJS). Do your Captians a favor and quit. And do us a favor and get off this board.

 

[Green]

Das-

You missed the whole Goddam# point!!!!

What Hockey was saying is that it's a ridiculous premise to argue that you should need to be a check airman, have thousands of hours of PIC Turbine, International time, or a few orbits under your belt in order to make a decent living as a pilot. He's not talking 250k, he's talking parity with an aircraft janitor. A part 121 airline pilot should be able to make as much as the guy/gal vaccuuming the cockpit in between flights. It's ridiculous and hockey has a valid point. Pilots are making less flying the EMB 170/190 than we were making flying DC-9's forty years ago. That is insane......

Of course we live in a free market society, but it's time we gain just an ounce of self respect and lift ourselves out of the working poor class.

 

[Sticky]

Hockey your point is well taken and in most of your observations you appear to be right. Know that this industry is what it is because there's simply too many pilots with too few slots. Example; CAL hiring say...600 pilots within the next few years...months...they have at least 3000 applicants! The numbers are probably similar if not worse at SWA, Airtran, UPS, and FEDEX and everywhere else you can think of.

I will share some information that I think proves my point. I pay my employees about $1000 a week on the average. Why do I pay them this much, sometimes more? Because they are HARD to FIND and RETAIN. When they come to me, they pretty much name their price and I either take it or leave it. In most cases I'm forced to take it. Quite the opposite of what the airline industry is. For those that are wondering....I own a small trucking company. Sad to say, but some of these drivers make more money than some of us even as Captains. Supply and demand

Very very true. How 'bout this: We pay our C310 pilots more then many RJ captains, and we only fly day VFR and are home every night. Why? Because they're worth it. They don't bounce between jobs searching for the next bigger plane.

Das-

You missed the whole Goddam# point!!!!



What Hockey was saying is that it's a ridiculous premise to argue that you should need to be a check airman, have thousands of hours of PIC Turbine, International time, or a few orbits under your belt in order to make a decent living as a pilot. He's not talking 250k, he's talking parity with an aircraft janitor. A part 121 airline pilot should be able to make as much as the guy/gal vaccuuming the cockpit in between flights. It's ridiculous and hockey has a valid point. Pilots are making less flying the EMB 170/190 than we were making flying DC-9's forty years ago. That is insane......



Of course we live in a free market society, but it's time we gain just an ounce of self respect and lift ourselves out of the working poor class.

Absolutely! That has to be the most misunderstood problem. Everybody knows this, but nobody wants to talk about it. An employee's value should not be based on the amount of ink in their logbook. Anybody who claims that they are more deserving of a pilot job because of their "time", must have nothing else going for them. Pilot pay has always been low, but 18K in 2005 is pathetic.

 

[Prop2Jet]

18K sucks but guess what, its not a glass ceiling, you are not capped at 18k when you progress into the majors, if you can, then you will get more $$$.

YOU CAN'T GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING.

Don't think of your CFI time, and student time as starting to chip away at the "when will I get more cash timeline." When u make it to the regionals then your time starts and the closer you will come to making the big bucks. I have plenty of friends who make 140K a year at the majors and they too got paid like crap, some even paid COEX for training--10K. So you talk about crappy pay now, man some of you don't have a leg to stand on. Like I stated before you don't like it, leave, go fly corporate it pays more. But if you have fortitude to stick it out your tears will pay off.
Sure organize, unionize, hold hands no one cares (meaning the company you fly for). Do your job, do it well and pave your own path to success and you will reap the rewards in the future. This $ stuff is not a surprise to any of us even when we got our PPLs we knew how bad it could be. Sure, this is only my view and it might not agree with your view(s) but just please stop and be happy for what you have and enjoy it. Money will come if you stick with it and your bills will get paid no matter what. (well that of course is subjective!)

Stay focused, fly safe and set your long-term goals and this regional process will make it all worth it when your driving your nice car, paying for kids college and flying 65 hours a month in your 777.

P2J

 

[Sticky]

But if you have fortitude to stick it out your tears will pay off

Says who? Is this based on the people who are fortunate enough to go from the regionals to a successful major career? For every one of them, there are plenty of others who weren't so lucky. Many pilots have sacrificed too much for their careers, only to lose their homes and retirements near the end. Also, as far as your pay rational, I'd rather make 60K on average a year from age 25 to 60, then start at 18K at 25 with only a chance of making six figures at some day. Why? Because compound interest is a wonderful thing. If you look into IRA and 401K plans you'll see that the key to accumulating wealth is not income, but rather length of time you can contribute into the fund.

 

[CODs4ever]

This industry is a real loser and unfortunately, a bad place to be now with high gas prices and bankruptcy at every turn. I flew for the military for 12 years and made good money, got out, and could only find work at a regional making $18K/year and having a very poor quality of life.

What is really humorous is the fact that when I left the job for which I had trained for the last 12 years of my life (airline pilot), I was offered an executive position in sales and a project manager position with a homebuilder - both jobs having a base salary of four times what I made as a regional FO. And oh, by the way, I had no direct experience in either of these (non-flying) areas of employment.

So, yes, I guess professional pilots could be termed as "bottom feeders" because over the years they have allowed pay & benefits to go down the toilet, while quality of life got worse. I can understand wanting to keep your job and your airline afloat, but this is ridiculous. I was told by an older pilot that in the early 1970's a senior captain at AAL made about $140K/year. That is around a half million in today's dollars. An airline captain today making $140K is probably not too far from the average - that's too bad, since there are many other jobs out there, with a lot less responsibility, making same or much more, income. And you will be home every night and have weekends & holidays free.

I chose to get out before it was too late and start another career. Now I only fly for fun, and I actually still enjoy my two-seat Cessna going 120 kts at 1500' and below. It sure beats flying for poverty wages and living in hotels.

 

[RJP]

Outside of lawyers, is there another profession other than aviation that is more "me-oriented"? Doubtful. How much OT can you scarf up each month?

The race to the bottom has to end somewhere.

 

[RJP]

and flying 65 hours a month in your 777.

P2J

Who exactly is hiring that flies 777 except Emirates or Continental?

 

[WickedPissa]

Note about the above post. Original text was automatically changed to the word dang. That kind of blows the original forcefulness of my statement and makes it sound gay. The politically-correct software should automatically change the word "gay" to "ALPA".

That's funny. Up to this point, I just thought a lot of rednecks wrote posts using the word "dang".

 

[Flyeys]

they took eer jebs!!!

 

[DoubtingThomas]

Furthermore, he is a new FO courageous enough to speak his mind to the spineless captains and fellow jellyfish he works with. It is the rare pilots like he which are the only hope for the success of this industry.

well I'm not very internet savvy but this quote is from 'crashpad'.

My question is: what exactly is courageous about posting anonymously on an internet gossip board? I was hoping 'crashpad's remark was sarcastic but now I believe that he was being sincere. It's almost enough to make a guy like me start praying for our future.

Horvath, S/A #801369

 

[SAEaviator]

It is going to be very hard for the regionals to up their pay when you have majors like United and USAir in bankruptcy that have their top guppy captains making a whopping $125 dollars an hour (airlinepilotpay.com). The trickle down effect is upon us and all we can do is fight to make our QOL and Pay better.