Pilots are pathetic bottomfeeders

[RP 04]

Fdc T E`

 

[filejw]

Hockey is right except for one thing.The NWA pilots have been making plan's for over 2 yrs, at one point in talks with the AMFA and PFAA.His mistake is the DW thing .Local MEC's make all the plans.And the plan is to live to fight an other day.AMFA is a trash and burn Union. The PFAA just hasn't got a clue.You want my MEC to let either of them take the lead?As long as the MEC's meet ALPA by-laws its a do as you please type thing.DW is a member of local one MSP and gets one vote.

 

[100LL... Again!]

What a little fool.

Why don't you go beat up some scabs then. Let us know how that turns out. If you get sent to prison, we'll take up a collection and send you some vaseline.


Anyway, it is tragic that you think that you are so wonderful that you are entitled to fat paychecks for a fairly low-stress job. You get what the market will bear, you whiney little bitch. If you get 200k, fine. If you get 20k, fine. This is called life and it was never designed so that you get whatever you think you deserve.

The fact that you are frustrated and angry gives me orgasmic pleasure, since you are too foolish to see how good you have it. You don't like the business, then LEAVE. You have not been in this industry long enough to have the right to complain.

Enjoy your miserable little life.

 

[Tyro]

Hockey is right. Everyone that believes that unions make a differences is blind. ... They know that they have us and we can't do anything about it unless we come together... the spiral and QOL at the airlines.

Most certainly, considering the responsibility and experience required to excel at the job, airline pilots are at all levels vastly underpaid. Substantially underpaid when considering the well-experienced aviator of many years. But the governing factor here is simply ‘supply and demand.’ Many qualified pilots for relatively few seats. A surprising number (with ‘SJS’) willing to work for minimal compensation, - or - even ‘pay’ for a seat.



No union and no quantity of bellicose verbiage will remedy what is fundamentally a business condition.

 

[wxman13]

"Business condition" or not, I think one of the key points from Hockey's post is being lost on the crowd. Regional pilots who have spent tens of thousands of dollars on their training, who are highly skilled, and who often have college degrees are making the same or less pay than cleaners, who are probably largely unskilled and don't require much training.

If you were a hospital administrator, would you consider paying nurses the same amount as the people making cafeteria food in there?

What about office tower window washers making the same as the lawyers and investment bankers inside?

Just a few things to ponder, however briefly, to put things in perspective. It's a sad situation no matter how you slice it.

 

[Tyro]

Wxman, concur 100%. It is not justifiable; it simply is.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Furthermore, he is a new FO courageous enough to speak his mind to the spineless captains and fellow jellyfish he works with. It is the rare pilots like he which are the only hope for the success of this industry.

Keep true to your values and beliefs Hockey, you are a true aviator.

This "courageous" FO is nothing of the sort. If he's ready to upgrade in a couple of months and will have had a two-year journey to get there, then he clearly has been at his company for around 18mos. The "regional airline industry" has not changed much in the last 18mos, so he knew what he was getting into before he took the job... and if he didn't then he didn't research it and has no reason to be kvetching. If he did know what he was getting into he STILL has no reason to be kvetching. All he's doing is making everyone he works with miserable... Complaining about that which he can't change just makes the crews he works with want to kill him. This takes no spine, it takes a bad attitude.

So, I guess in that case he IS a "true aviator".

 

[pilotyip]

Hockey 44 . We have people flying for us who quit the restaurant business because it was too much work and uncertainly compared to the life of a pilot, what makes you sure that this is the correct move? If have not put in 10 years to build your flying career you are changing paths too quickly. If you had not gone to college you would be about 3-4 years ahead in your flying career, maybe logging TJ PIC building that resume fluff that get s you a good job. You then could have done the degree on the side so you could be competitive for UPS and FedEx.

 

[Nindiri]

How is he saving up to open a restaurant on a FO's salary?

 

[apache]

Hockey:

Don't take to heart the insults from those that make excuses for the "new sweatshops" that the regionals are and others are evolving in to. Your analysis of the industry is correct and the sooner you make inroads into another line of work, the better off you will be. Don't keep at this grind for 15 years waiting for things to get better like I have before you make the move.

And those that criticize you are either management types, Hitler youth (wannabe policeman check airmen), or those that simply love flying and posess IQ's in excess of 20 points below yours.

Make the move and don't look back. Work hard and succeed, good luck!

 

[AAflyer]

the mechs and aircraft cleaners don't have as much vested as the pilots do. An A&P could easily get a job at a BMW dealer and make the same if not more. An aircraft cleaner probably didn't spend much toward their training. It's not so easy for a pilot to make a lateral move. Wherever you go, you have to start at the bottom again. I don't blame them for striking, they can easily get a job somewhere else doing something similar for better pay.

So that is the reason we should keep getting less, because we are highly skilled, and too specialized? That's rich.. No wonder NWA wanted to get rid of the bag handlers making 50K, why should they pay that if they can pay RJ pilots 25K.

Interesting, 4 year degree, highly specialized job individual lowers the bar so bag smasher high school grad has to take paycut.. We are going to wipe each other out. And we joke about having that number for truck masters driving school.

AA

 

[viper548]

So that is the reason we should keep getting less, because we are highly skilled, and too specialized? That's rich.. No wonder NWA wanted to get rid of the bag handlers making 50K, why should they pay that if they can pay RJ pilots 25K.

Interesting, 4 year degree, highly specialized job individual lowers the bar so bag smasher high school grad has to take paycut.. We are going to wipe each other out. And we joke about having that number for truck masters driving school.

AA

Pilots should get more because of those reasons

 

[I.P. Freley]

And those that criticize you are either management types, Hitler youth (wannabe policeman check airmen), or those that simply love flying and posess IQ's in excess of 20 points below yours.

So... Are YOU still in the regional business?

 

[apache]

No, I did one even more stupid, after five years in the commuters, I "progressed" to a "major" for three more years flying Boeings. My best year there was $35K with overtime. I flew a few other places but we won't talk about that...........

The "major" I flew for is demanding that the pilot group take a big cut or else file the 1113 with the judge. Looks like if I had stayed there, I might have made nearly $40K next year after DWorthless convinces the sheep to vote in favor of slaughter. But then again, I would be flying a Boeing and that could help fight my feelings of inadequacy and small fallace.......................

I hope that you ask out of curiosity because I can dang sure guarantee that I've earned the right to complain.

 

[V1cutsrfun]

I've flown with people like you, it sux to work with them, people like you will never be happy in life, go on enjoy your restaurant utopia, more restaurants fail then any other business, god help any one around you when THAT doesn't go your way too, you will never be happy at anything.

 

[apache]

Note about the above post. Original text was automatically changed to the word dang. That kind of blows the original forcefulness of my statement and makes it sound gay. The politically-correct software should automatically change the word "gay" to "ALPA".

 

[johnny taliban]

You guys crack me up. Who was it that forced you to take that LOSER JOB in the first place? Did management lie to you about the payscale?? Everyone of you who excepted employment at one of those "sweatshops" knew EXACTLY how much money you were going to make. So why are you complaining about it now? You were foolish to accept the job in the first place and now you are even more foolish to come on this board and complain about. You get to where you hat,you get to call yourself an "airline pilot" and you get to fly a jet. Thats what you signed up for when you accepted the job offer and that is exactly what you are getting. The person the blame for your lame paycheck is YOURSELF.

Johnny

 

[apache]

Yes and no. Plenty of carrots have been dangled in the form of expectations of a good living by the company AND the union at the companies that I've worked for.

Unfortunately, we are in the era of the stick. What concessions management doesn't take, the union will offer. And making things easier for them to do this are those people that will accept less and impune those that dare ask, demand, or even complain about the unfulfilled expectations.

If you are happy with your pay and working conditions, I am truly happy for you. So is management.

 

[I.P. Freley]

No, I did one even more stupid, after five years in the commuters, I "progressed" to a "major" for three more years flying Boeings. My best year there was $35K with overtime. I flew a few other places but we won't talk about that...........

The "major" I flew for is demanding that the pilot group take a big cut or else file the 1113 with the judge. Looks like if I had stayed there, I might have made nearly $40K next year after DWorthless convinces the sheep to vote in favor of slaughter. But then again, I would be flying a Boeing and that could help fight my feelings of inadequacy and small fallace.......................

I hope that you ask out of curiosity because I can dang sure guarantee that I've earned the right to complain.

Darn right I am curious. I am even more curious how you only earned $35k (with overtime!!) at a "major" in your third year there... And look forward to $40k in your FOURTH year? Even with pay cuts I can't wrap my brain around that one.

In any case, you have earned your right to complain (as many of us have), yet I wonder how you think that the person who started this thread is some sort of pied piper of ultimate aviation knowledge for complaining after 18mos in this business. His bitching is exactly that, bitching, and I don't understand how it is that you feel that he's above being criticized... Like he's divined some knowledge of this business that makes him above reproach. You don't need to be management or the equivalent of the Hitler Youth or criminally stupid to recognize that he's complaining about something he should've known about before he rolled up his impressive 18mos in the airline business. Again, even if he somehow was unaware that this business isn't what it used to be, he's still an idiot for not doing his homework. He knew the pay scale when he was hired, and in fact the "new" contract at his company may have given him a raise since he started, depending upon when it was he started. You have no right to complain about pay scales that are equal to or better than that which you signed on for. If the pay was too low to be believed, then you should've turned down your class date... Not take the job and spend the next 18mos complaining about it.

If he started his career at CHQ in mid-2001 or earlier, when everything was still rosy and even lowly turboprop captains were getting hired at majors, he'd perhaps have a basis for his bitterness... But starting at an airline in 2003, maybe even 2004? Complaining that bag-flingers are making more than regional FO's? Nearly what regional captains are making? This is not exactly a new development, and he had ample opportunity to stick with the friggin' restaurant business and send sizzling plates of teriyaki chicken out the swinging door of the kitchen and leave the airline business to people who recognize it for what it is, not what it was long before they took the plunge.

Why you applaud him for bitching about the painfully obvious, I can only imagine. Perhaps next you'll cheer along with him as he complains about the high price of gas, and darn it, he owns a pickup truck and it's the fault of the business that his truck gets 10mpg? Gimme a break.

 

[Snakum]

The fact that you are frustrated and angry gives me orgasmic pleasure

I've said this exact same thing to a couple of my wives. And yes ... they were ex-wives shortly afterward.

Minhommad the BottomFeeder