Pilots are pathetic bottomfeeders

[DAS at 10/250]

First of all Hockey watch your language. Swear all you want but leave the Lord out of it. And God is capitalized. Or perhaps your parents didn't teach that to you.

Are you serious about all this rambling being a two year CHQ pilot? How much time did you have? 600. 800. Wait, maybe you were a 1000 hour pilot. Whoa, that's high time. Any let's see, you had how many types? How much turbine PIC? How much jet time? How much international? How many years as a Chief Pilot or Check Airman? What were you flying? Piper? Cessna? Maybe a big ole PA44? You had no time, no experience, and not much value. That is why the only job you could get was paying $20K. Until your resume shows that you are worth something your pay will resemble such.

There are a thousand other 700 hour guys out there who think somebody owes them a jet (SJS). Do your Captians a favor and quit. And do us a favor and get off this board.

 

[Green]

Das-

You missed the whole Goddam# point!!!!

What Hockey was saying is that it's a ridiculous premise to argue that you should need to be a check airman, have thousands of hours of PIC Turbine, International time, or a few orbits under your belt in order to make a decent living as a pilot. He's not talking 250k, he's talking parity with an aircraft janitor. A part 121 airline pilot should be able to make as much as the guy/gal vaccuuming the cockpit in between flights. It's ridiculous and hockey has a valid point. Pilots are making less flying the EMB 170/190 than we were making flying DC-9's forty years ago. That is insane......

Of course we live in a free market society, but it's time we gain just an ounce of self respect and lift ourselves out of the working poor class.

 

[Sticky]

Hockey your point is well taken and in most of your observations you appear to be right. Know that this industry is what it is because there's simply too many pilots with too few slots. Example; CAL hiring say...600 pilots within the next few years...months...they have at least 3000 applicants! The numbers are probably similar if not worse at SWA, Airtran, UPS, and FEDEX and everywhere else you can think of.

I will share some information that I think proves my point. I pay my employees about $1000 a week on the average. Why do I pay them this much, sometimes more? Because they are HARD to FIND and RETAIN. When they come to me, they pretty much name their price and I either take it or leave it. In most cases I'm forced to take it. Quite the opposite of what the airline industry is. For those that are wondering....I own a small trucking company. Sad to say, but some of these drivers make more money than some of us even as Captains. Supply and demand

Very very true. How 'bout this: We pay our C310 pilots more then many RJ captains, and we only fly day VFR and are home every night. Why? Because they're worth it. They don't bounce between jobs searching for the next bigger plane.

Das-

You missed the whole Goddam# point!!!!



What Hockey was saying is that it's a ridiculous premise to argue that you should need to be a check airman, have thousands of hours of PIC Turbine, International time, or a few orbits under your belt in order to make a decent living as a pilot. He's not talking 250k, he's talking parity with an aircraft janitor. A part 121 airline pilot should be able to make as much as the guy/gal vaccuuming the cockpit in between flights. It's ridiculous and hockey has a valid point. Pilots are making less flying the EMB 170/190 than we were making flying DC-9's forty years ago. That is insane......



Of course we live in a free market society, but it's time we gain just an ounce of self respect and lift ourselves out of the working poor class.

Absolutely! That has to be the most misunderstood problem. Everybody knows this, but nobody wants to talk about it. An employee's value should not be based on the amount of ink in their logbook. Anybody who claims that they are more deserving of a pilot job because of their "time", must have nothing else going for them. Pilot pay has always been low, but 18K in 2005 is pathetic.

 

[Prop2Jet]

18K sucks but guess what, its not a glass ceiling, you are not capped at 18k when you progress into the majors, if you can, then you will get more $$$.

YOU CAN'T GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING.

Don't think of your CFI time, and student time as starting to chip away at the "when will I get more cash timeline." When u make it to the regionals then your time starts and the closer you will come to making the big bucks. I have plenty of friends who make 140K a year at the majors and they too got paid like crap, some even paid COEX for training--10K. So you talk about crappy pay now, man some of you don't have a leg to stand on. Like I stated before you don't like it, leave, go fly corporate it pays more. But if you have fortitude to stick it out your tears will pay off.
Sure organize, unionize, hold hands no one cares (meaning the company you fly for). Do your job, do it well and pave your own path to success and you will reap the rewards in the future. This $ stuff is not a surprise to any of us even when we got our PPLs we knew how bad it could be. Sure, this is only my view and it might not agree with your view(s) but just please stop and be happy for what you have and enjoy it. Money will come if you stick with it and your bills will get paid no matter what. (well that of course is subjective!)

Stay focused, fly safe and set your long-term goals and this regional process will make it all worth it when your driving your nice car, paying for kids college and flying 65 hours a month in your 777.

P2J

 

[Sticky]

But if you have fortitude to stick it out your tears will pay off

Says who? Is this based on the people who are fortunate enough to go from the regionals to a successful major career? For every one of them, there are plenty of others who weren't so lucky. Many pilots have sacrificed too much for their careers, only to lose their homes and retirements near the end. Also, as far as your pay rational, I'd rather make 60K on average a year from age 25 to 60, then start at 18K at 25 with only a chance of making six figures at some day. Why? Because compound interest is a wonderful thing. If you look into IRA and 401K plans you'll see that the key to accumulating wealth is not income, but rather length of time you can contribute into the fund.

 

[CODs4ever]

This industry is a real loser and unfortunately, a bad place to be now with high gas prices and bankruptcy at every turn. I flew for the military for 12 years and made good money, got out, and could only find work at a regional making $18K/year and having a very poor quality of life.

What is really humorous is the fact that when I left the job for which I had trained for the last 12 years of my life (airline pilot), I was offered an executive position in sales and a project manager position with a homebuilder - both jobs having a base salary of four times what I made as a regional FO. And oh, by the way, I had no direct experience in either of these (non-flying) areas of employment.

So, yes, I guess professional pilots could be termed as "bottom feeders" because over the years they have allowed pay & benefits to go down the toilet, while quality of life got worse. I can understand wanting to keep your job and your airline afloat, but this is ridiculous. I was told by an older pilot that in the early 1970's a senior captain at AAL made about $140K/year. That is around a half million in today's dollars. An airline captain today making $140K is probably not too far from the average - that's too bad, since there are many other jobs out there, with a lot less responsibility, making same or much more, income. And you will be home every night and have weekends & holidays free.

I chose to get out before it was too late and start another career. Now I only fly for fun, and I actually still enjoy my two-seat Cessna going 120 kts at 1500' and below. It sure beats flying for poverty wages and living in hotels.

 

[RJP]

Outside of lawyers, is there another profession other than aviation that is more "me-oriented"? Doubtful. How much OT can you scarf up each month?

The race to the bottom has to end somewhere.

 

[RJP]

and flying 65 hours a month in your 777.

P2J

Who exactly is hiring that flies 777 except Emirates or Continental?

 

[WickedPissa]

Note about the above post. Original text was automatically changed to the word dang. That kind of blows the original forcefulness of my statement and makes it sound gay. The politically-correct software should automatically change the word "gay" to "ALPA".

That's funny. Up to this point, I just thought a lot of rednecks wrote posts using the word "dang".

 

[Flyeys]

they took eer jebs!!!

 

[DoubtingThomas]

Furthermore, he is a new FO courageous enough to speak his mind to the spineless captains and fellow jellyfish he works with. It is the rare pilots like he which are the only hope for the success of this industry.

well I'm not very internet savvy but this quote is from 'crashpad'.

My question is: what exactly is courageous about posting anonymously on an internet gossip board? I was hoping 'crashpad's remark was sarcastic but now I believe that he was being sincere. It's almost enough to make a guy like me start praying for our future.

Horvath, S/A #801369

 

[SAEaviator]

It is going to be very hard for the regionals to up their pay when you have majors like United and USAir in bankruptcy that have their top guppy captains making a whopping $125 dollars an hour (airlinepilotpay.com). The trickle down effect is upon us and all we can do is fight to make our QOL and Pay better.