Pilots against JBPA (jetblue union)

[Bavarian Chef]

This message is hidden because 8vATE is on your ignore list.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Let's see, in the same number of posts, I see Airtran trying to dump NPA for ALPA; APA walks out during talks with management; UsAir dump ALPA for their own union and still operate a "merged" airline as two separate ones for 3 years; furloughed union pilots at United, American, Spirit, Airtran, Alaska, NWA maybe Continental-- so why not unionize Jetblue!!! Lets dump 300 pilots we don't need and displace another 200... I don't care, the union will protect ME, the senior guy... At least my productivity, paycheck, and benefits will increase in the USA's most ademic economic period in history!!! Watch what our self-appointed leaders at JBPA will provide for us!!! I can't wait!!!!

 

[Blue Dude]

Don't even go there with that self-appointed leaders stuff again. You've been corrected on this issue more than once. I can only assume that you are deliberately choosing not to understand. Notice that I'm doing you the courtesy of assuming that you're intelligent enough to understand. Don't prove me wrong.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Anyway.....




looks like Glenn Tilton of UAL will be leading JB management at the ATA....

If JB management can join an Association, why not the JB pilots?

 

[StaySeated]

What I think is really weird is the fact that the Jet Blue Pilots Association hasn't used the fact of this "Values Committee" to petition the NMB for union status.

"Values Committees", or any other type of committee that is company sponsored and takes the place of union duties is a "de facto" admission that the workforce is unionized.

It doesn't even take a card vote to certify, the NMB can (and has) simply said, "If it walks and talks like a union, it is a union."

That's why so many companies are loath to give any power to employee committees--they get socked with a representation decision they don't want if they cross the line between advisory and proto-union constructs.

JBLU already has a union on its property.

It's not a stretch to say that the presence of a standardized written contract with the pilots, the presence of a values committee (what does "PVC" stand for anyway?) and other assorted "if you had a union, they'd be doing this for you, we'll just do it so you don't feel you need a union" tidbits add up to a union on the property.

In my view, and I studied quite a bit of labor law in college, Jet Blue already is unionized and is only a hair's breadth away from certification as such.

If the company bends over so far backwards to give you what a union would give you to keep a union off the property, it can run the risk of going too far and being considered a company-sponsered union.

There's a lot of case history of this, but it's mostly a long time ago, but the case history is why so many companies avoid anything that looks like a company-sponsored union. They start out trying to do good, then oops, they created their own union on the property.

you are correct but the anti-union ilk has refined their argument and they actually want these "committees". During the union drive they will compare their committee to the eventual organized labor group and state that 1)the committee works already, why change it, and b)you will destroy the relationship we have developed with the committee if you organize and iii)you don't pay dues to the committee why should you pay xx% to those evil ibt/alpa/afa/blah blah blah. Group hug.

At my airline they actually allow the unorganized labor groups to "vote" on things like work rules and concessions (we are in bk). Never mind the fact that the vote is totally meaningless and no party in the unorganized group has had a say in what gets voted upon. These are the steps that company's take to avoid organized labor.

Again, I agree with what you are saying but not too long ago some little bean counter in the corner of the room thought that maybe it would be a pretty good idea to form a committee. I can tell you from sitting on the sidelines that it has bought JB management a year or two free from those pesky little CBA's.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Let's see, in the same number of posts, I see Airtran trying to dump NPA for ALPA; APA walks out during talks with management; UsAir dump ALPA for their own union and still operate a "merged" airline as two separate ones for 3 years; furloughed union pilots at United, American, Spirit, Airtran, Alaska, NWA maybe Continental-- so why not unionize Jetblue!!! Lets dump 300 pilots we don't need and displace another 200... I don't care, the union will protect ME, the senior guy... At least my productivity, paycheck, and benefits will increase in the USA's most ademic economic period in history!!! Watch what our self-appointed leaders at JBPA will provide for us!!! I can't wait!!!!

I find it hard to believe that a grown man is typing this stuff.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Will you DORKS please take this to another thread?

Seriously, this thread is about JB and the NMB -- not a discussion about the Founding Fathers, God, the evolution of the Union, the Magna Carta, or whether Sleestacks on the TV show "The Land of the Lost" harmed an entire generation of children.

START ANOTHER F-IN THREAD YOU JAGNUTS.
__________________
...I think military guys can't think outside of the box, and they are afraid of weather. -- the SWA/FO

I can't believe a grown adult can write this stuff... You're too personal for a Navy guy, maybe that's why they have their names imprinted on their rear pant pockets...

 

[clickclickboom]

Dont forget guys remember that big raise you got in 03 that brought you up from the $80-$90 per hour capt pay on that 170,000lb Airbus?


Inflation from Feb 2000 to Current is 27.55%

You got a nice raise and today your pay is just even with inflation compared to those old rates.

Yes you have taken a 3-4% pay cut every year on property here. You might be happy with that but I didnt take a job here that will give me dollar for dollar less buying power per year.

I add no emotion to my decision making process. I dont fall for all of this company anti union propoganda. Dave's Dec 1st letter just further reinforces my decision to vote yes.

Let me quote:

" Some pilots believe we purposefully ignored many elements of this year pilot compensation review board( PCRB) ( We didnt in fact, we created the concept of the Permanent Working Committees to address those items we couldnt action immediately- A concept that we were unable to action at this time because of the representation filing with the National Mediation Board,)

What truly unsettles me is that those of you making over $100,000 per year here just seem to be blinded to the fact that you make a good salary. YOU SHOULDNT NEED TO TAKE A PAYCUT YEARLY OR OFFSET YOUR LOSS WITH SENIORITY.

To me its a simple business decision. We have been manipulated for the last 4 years and the company has proven not once, not twice but three years in a row that they will ignore the findingsof the pcrb put their own spin on it and then rob peter to pay paul.

Yes Year 5 Capts thanks for calling in sick on that 25 hour 4 day and losing $2000 of pay to subsidize my 4th year $12,000 raise.

I will happily give an additional 1% of my pay to force the company to play by the rules and not their own even if it takes 3 years or more to get a contract in place.

PS: I would not vote on a contract that causes the company financial harm but I will certainly push for adequate benefits with LOL protections and workrules that do not permit our junior lineholders to fly 14 hour 4 day non commutable trips. My hourly pay can come last.

I want long term success for Jetblue but I wont finance it on my back.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

At the next pow-wow someone should ask the big boys about the bonus they get if a union drive gets defeated.

Part of their "metric" of performance tied to bonus

 

[clickclickboom]

Let's see, in the same number of posts, I see Airtran trying to dump NPA for ALPA; APA walks out during talks with management; UsAir dump ALPA for their own union and still operate a "merged" airline as two separate ones for 3 years; furloughed union pilots at United, American, Spirit, Airtran, Alaska, NWA maybe Continental-- so why not unionize Jetblue!!! Lets dump 300 pilots we don't need and displace another 200... I don't care, the union will protect ME, the senior guy... At least my productivity, paycheck, and benefits will increase in the USA's most ademic economic period in history!!! Watch what our self-appointed leaders at JBPA will provide for us!!! I can't wait!!!!

And just to set the record straight there is NOT going to be 300 Furloughs the second a union is voted in. that is nothing but company issued FUD FEAR, UNCERTAINTY AND DOUBT !!! It is tactic #1.

We are not 300 fat that number was thrown out when oil was in the run up to $147 a barrell and jetblue was dealing with the reality that selling an additional 15 aircraft was in the works in addition to the shared sacrifice of potential 55-60 hour monthly bid divisors.

Take a look at the daily reserves. Most days end up in the red or close. Every day of every weekend are always red.

Plus these part time gigs and opt out programs were only posted as 10 slots each??!!

Plus we are expecting to hire up to 40 new hires into the 190 into the new year.

Dont get me wrong I love other opinions that is how people learn new things but your rant is either out of ignorance with your rosy current situation OR you just take any info thrown at you hook line and sinker

.....

 

[82spukram]

Take this for what its worth but 190 class of 16 mid February. Friend works in the training department. So I doubt they are 300 over staffed.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

And just to set the record straight there is NOT going to be 300 Furloughs the second a union is voted in. that is nothing but company issued FUD FEAR, UNCERTAINTY AND DOUBT !!! It is tactic #1.

We are not 300 fat that number was thrown out when oil was in the run up to $147 a barrell and jetblue was dealing with the reality that selling an additional 15 aircraft was in the works in addition to the shared sacrifice of potential 55-60 hour monthly bid divisors.

Take a look at the daily reserves. Most days end up in the red or close. Every day of every weekend are always red.

Plus these part time gigs and opt out programs were only posted as 10 slots each??!!

Plus we are expecting to hire up to 40 new hires into the 190 into the new year.

Dont get me wrong I love other opinions that is how people learn new things but your rant is either out of ignorance with your rosy current situation OR you just take any info thrown at you hook line and sinker

.....

Forecast for travel in 2009 is looking very dismal. It doesn't matter if oil is at $25/barrel when no one is flying-- we're still not going to make any money... As for the 300 possible furloughs, that number has been around for a while. If you look at the current bid divisors, one can assume that to get to 85+ hours again, we can lop off at least a few FOs. Additionally, our reserves are not flying- look at the currencies for these guys who are flying 20 hour months at best in some bases, some not flying at all!!!

So, if you want a change in the way our relationship is with management and the current NO FURLOUGHS, then vote for JBPA. I want to see what JBPA can deliver in this economic time of crisis-- you'll be wishing we had status quo when the company comes asking for concessions and starts furloughing just like Airtran, Spirit, United, American, Alaska, NWA, and Delta have done in the past and will do in the future. Nothing like a 100% pay cut!!!

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Take this for what its worth but 190 class of 16 mid February. Friend works in the training department. So I doubt they are 300 over staffed.

This has come to fruition due to the non-sale of a few E-190s. When the vote is done in February, and it goes the way of JBPA-- EVERYTHING COMES OFF THE TABLE. And you know what, it might not stop at 300!!!!

And thanks to JBPA, we're not going to see anything positive from management until the vote is complete. From Dave Barger, " in fact, we created the concept of the Permanent Working Committees to address those items we couldn't action immediately- a concept that we are unable to action at this time because of the representation filing with the NMB."

So thanks, JBPA for slowing or even stopping what was put forward to possibly move things in the right direction for pilots. Thank you very much...

 

[Blue Dude]

So thanks, JBPA for slowing or even stopping what was put forward to possibly move things in the right direction for pilots. Thank you very much...

Yes, we were breathlessly awaiting myriad, significant improvements in the mid-Nov to early-Feb timeframe, is that what you're saying? Bayou, they weren't even going to seat the new committees until after that. I can't believe you're that naive.

 

[PCL_128]

I want to see what JBPA can deliver in this economic time of crisis-- you'll be wishing we had status quo when the company comes asking for concessions and starts furloughing just like Airtran

We're recalling pilots and rescinding displacements, actually. The company says advance bookings are looking great for next year and we're expecting an $80 million profit for the year. But thanks for thinking about us.

As for status quo, your no-furlough clause in the individual 5-year contracts remains in effect until a new collective bargaining agreement is signed under JBPA, so there won't be any furloughs as soon as JBPA gets elected. That fear mongering is ridiculous.

Good luck to the JBPA pilots.