Pilots against JBPA (jetblue union)

[9rj9]

He's pro-Obama but anti-union? That's unusual.

similar to the pro mcCain/barbie but pro union.

 

[PCL_128]

similar to the pro mcCain/barbie but pro union.

Unfortunately, that's pretty common in our business.

 

[Skank]

So Chef...


So it's Nick B?
He isn't keeping anything a secret.

Can someone have an opinion that may or may not differ from your own?

You're not one of them left wingers that get their panties tied up in a wad when someone has a different perspective on a topic... are you?

If you are saying that left-wingers are guilty of this, but not right-wingers, may I mention two words? Bill O'Reilly.

 

[CaptainSpaz]

So Chef...
Can someone have an opinion that may or may not differ from your own?

You're not one of them left wingers that get their panties tied up in a wad when someone has a different perspective on a topic... are you?

Like it is a simple as that? Please, don't act like you are the only intelligent person in a room full of dolts.

The reality is Nick's actions and the PVC's silence regarding his actions support the lack of faith in the PVC to do their job effectively.

The solution to this problem was very simple - So you are Nick Berdeguez and you find out that JBPA filed? You realize that you have a commitment to every JB pilot and it is therefore your responsibility to remain neutral.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Like it is a simple as that? Please, don't act like you are the only intelligent person in a room full of dolts.

The reality is Nick's actions and the PVC's silence regarding his actions support the lack of faith in the PVC to do their job effectively.

The solution to this problem was very simple - So you are Nick Berdeguez and you find out that JBPA filed? You realize that you have a commitment to every JB pilot and it is therefore your responsibility to remain neutral.

So far the PVC doesn't see it that way. They maintain that the website is his individual opinion and in no way reflects the PVC nor will it interfere with Nick's ability to serve every pilot in an unbiased manner.

Every JB pilot should email the PVC with their concerns.

 

[8vATE]

Chef says I'm a nut.. thank you.

Wow..

Some of you guys are real characters...

First off..

I am fairly certain that a member of the PVC can be against JBPA and still fairly represent a pilot with matters pertaining to the PVC. Since when is anti JBPA anti pilot? Or pro management?

Secondly..

O'Reilly is a little off the deep end with all the shouting but at least he has some hot blond tail on the show.

And being called a "nut" by Chef is a compliment in my book. With his 1500 posts he'll soon have a General Lee following that can bow down and worship him.

My MAIN POINT is ..
Can't a person have a differing opinion without it becoming a shouting match or emotionally charged issue?

There are legitimate pros/cons with voting in a union.
Why do we always have to listen to those that shout the loudest and believe them?

I have 15 years of ALPA experience and there were no guarantees and plenty of gripes. You voted on your five year contract... grieved all the loopholes the negotiators left in the contract... then negotiated 2-3 years to get your next contract.

So why don't you guys all take a deep breath, fly your airplanes and vote how you want.

Just keep your clam sauce breath out of my face.

 

[8vATE]

Oh yea Chef, you got a lot of union experience I guess in the bunkroom of the carrier with your F-14?

Too bad I'm on your ignore list.

Someone please paste this so he'll get it!
Thank YOU.

 

[fifty30retard]

Could someone please explain this PVC thing? What is the purpose of the PVC? Who appoints the members? Do they represent pilots being disciplined?

It's a half hearted attempt to make the sheep feel like they are represented. Guess what we're not. I'm voting yes and Nick needs to step down. I'll try and be a gentleman and not comment about a specific individual.

 

[fifty30retard]

He's pro-Obama but anti-union? That's unusual.

Who needs a union when you have Obama as president? Right???

 

[radarlove]

What I think is really weird is the fact that the Jet Blue Pilots Association hasn't used the fact of this "Values Committee" to petition the NMB for union status.

"Values Committees", or any other type of committee that is company sponsored and takes the place of union duties is a "de facto" admission that the workforce is unionized.

It doesn't even take a card vote to certify, the NMB can (and has) simply said, "If it walks and talks like a union, it is a union."

That's why so many companies are loath to give any power to employee committees--they get socked with a representation decision they don't want if they cross the line between advisory and proto-union constructs.

JBLU already has a union on its property.

It's not a stretch to say that the presence of a standardized written contract with the pilots, the presence of a values committee (what does "PVC" stand for anyway?) and other assorted "if you had a union, they'd be doing this for you, we'll just do it so you don't feel you need a union" tidbits add up to a union on the property.

In my view, and I studied quite a bit of labor law in college, Jet Blue already is unionized and is only a hair's breadth away from certification as such.

If the company bends over so far backwards to give you what a union would give you to keep a union off the property, it can run the risk of going too far and being considered a company-sponsered union.

There's a lot of case history of this, but it's mostly a long time ago, but the case history is why so many companies avoid anything that looks like a company-sponsored union. They start out trying to do good, then oops, they created their own union on the property.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

This message is hidden because 8vATE is on your ignore list.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Let's see, in the same number of posts, I see Airtran trying to dump NPA for ALPA; APA walks out during talks with management; UsAir dump ALPA for their own union and still operate a "merged" airline as two separate ones for 3 years; furloughed union pilots at United, American, Spirit, Airtran, Alaska, NWA maybe Continental-- so why not unionize Jetblue!!! Lets dump 300 pilots we don't need and displace another 200... I don't care, the union will protect ME, the senior guy... At least my productivity, paycheck, and benefits will increase in the USA's most ademic economic period in history!!! Watch what our self-appointed leaders at JBPA will provide for us!!! I can't wait!!!!

 

[Blue Dude]

Don't even go there with that self-appointed leaders stuff again. You've been corrected on this issue more than once. I can only assume that you are deliberately choosing not to understand. Notice that I'm doing you the courtesy of assuming that you're intelligent enough to understand. Don't prove me wrong.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Anyway.....




looks like Glenn Tilton of UAL will be leading JB management at the ATA....

If JB management can join an Association, why not the JB pilots?

 

[StaySeated]

What I think is really weird is the fact that the Jet Blue Pilots Association hasn't used the fact of this "Values Committee" to petition the NMB for union status.

"Values Committees", or any other type of committee that is company sponsored and takes the place of union duties is a "de facto" admission that the workforce is unionized.

It doesn't even take a card vote to certify, the NMB can (and has) simply said, "If it walks and talks like a union, it is a union."

That's why so many companies are loath to give any power to employee committees--they get socked with a representation decision they don't want if they cross the line between advisory and proto-union constructs.

JBLU already has a union on its property.

It's not a stretch to say that the presence of a standardized written contract with the pilots, the presence of a values committee (what does "PVC" stand for anyway?) and other assorted "if you had a union, they'd be doing this for you, we'll just do it so you don't feel you need a union" tidbits add up to a union on the property.

In my view, and I studied quite a bit of labor law in college, Jet Blue already is unionized and is only a hair's breadth away from certification as such.

If the company bends over so far backwards to give you what a union would give you to keep a union off the property, it can run the risk of going too far and being considered a company-sponsered union.

There's a lot of case history of this, but it's mostly a long time ago, but the case history is why so many companies avoid anything that looks like a company-sponsored union. They start out trying to do good, then oops, they created their own union on the property.

you are correct but the anti-union ilk has refined their argument and they actually want these "committees". During the union drive they will compare their committee to the eventual organized labor group and state that 1)the committee works already, why change it, and b)you will destroy the relationship we have developed with the committee if you organize and iii)you don't pay dues to the committee why should you pay xx% to those evil ibt/alpa/afa/blah blah blah. Group hug.

At my airline they actually allow the unorganized labor groups to "vote" on things like work rules and concessions (we are in bk). Never mind the fact that the vote is totally meaningless and no party in the unorganized group has had a say in what gets voted upon. These are the steps that company's take to avoid organized labor.

Again, I agree with what you are saying but not too long ago some little bean counter in the corner of the room thought that maybe it would be a pretty good idea to form a committee. I can tell you from sitting on the sidelines that it has bought JB management a year or two free from those pesky little CBA's.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Let's see, in the same number of posts, I see Airtran trying to dump NPA for ALPA; APA walks out during talks with management; UsAir dump ALPA for their own union and still operate a "merged" airline as two separate ones for 3 years; furloughed union pilots at United, American, Spirit, Airtran, Alaska, NWA maybe Continental-- so why not unionize Jetblue!!! Lets dump 300 pilots we don't need and displace another 200... I don't care, the union will protect ME, the senior guy... At least my productivity, paycheck, and benefits will increase in the USA's most ademic economic period in history!!! Watch what our self-appointed leaders at JBPA will provide for us!!! I can't wait!!!!

I find it hard to believe that a grown man is typing this stuff.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Will you DORKS please take this to another thread?

Seriously, this thread is about JB and the NMB -- not a discussion about the Founding Fathers, God, the evolution of the Union, the Magna Carta, or whether Sleestacks on the TV show "The Land of the Lost" harmed an entire generation of children.

START ANOTHER F-IN THREAD YOU JAGNUTS.
__________________
...I think military guys can't think outside of the box, and they are afraid of weather. -- the SWA/FO

I can't believe a grown adult can write this stuff... You're too personal for a Navy guy, maybe that's why they have their names imprinted on their rear pant pockets...

 

[clickclickboom]

Dont forget guys remember that big raise you got in 03 that brought you up from the $80-$90 per hour capt pay on that 170,000lb Airbus?


Inflation from Feb 2000 to Current is 27.55%

You got a nice raise and today your pay is just even with inflation compared to those old rates.

Yes you have taken a 3-4% pay cut every year on property here. You might be happy with that but I didnt take a job here that will give me dollar for dollar less buying power per year.

I add no emotion to my decision making process. I dont fall for all of this company anti union propoganda. Dave's Dec 1st letter just further reinforces my decision to vote yes.

Let me quote:

" Some pilots believe we purposefully ignored many elements of this year pilot compensation review board( PCRB) ( We didnt in fact, we created the concept of the Permanent Working Committees to address those items we couldnt action immediately- A concept that we were unable to action at this time because of the representation filing with the National Mediation Board,)

What truly unsettles me is that those of you making over $100,000 per year here just seem to be blinded to the fact that you make a good salary. YOU SHOULDNT NEED TO TAKE A PAYCUT YEARLY OR OFFSET YOUR LOSS WITH SENIORITY.

To me its a simple business decision. We have been manipulated for the last 4 years and the company has proven not once, not twice but three years in a row that they will ignore the findingsof the pcrb put their own spin on it and then rob peter to pay paul.

Yes Year 5 Capts thanks for calling in sick on that 25 hour 4 day and losing $2000 of pay to subsidize my 4th year $12,000 raise.

I will happily give an additional 1% of my pay to force the company to play by the rules and not their own even if it takes 3 years or more to get a contract in place.

PS: I would not vote on a contract that causes the company financial harm but I will certainly push for adequate benefits with LOL protections and workrules that do not permit our junior lineholders to fly 14 hour 4 day non commutable trips. My hourly pay can come last.

I want long term success for Jetblue but I wont finance it on my back.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

At the next pow-wow someone should ask the big boys about the bonus they get if a union drive gets defeated.

Part of their "metric" of performance tied to bonus

 

[clickclickboom]

Let's see, in the same number of posts, I see Airtran trying to dump NPA for ALPA; APA walks out during talks with management; UsAir dump ALPA for their own union and still operate a "merged" airline as two separate ones for 3 years; furloughed union pilots at United, American, Spirit, Airtran, Alaska, NWA maybe Continental-- so why not unionize Jetblue!!! Lets dump 300 pilots we don't need and displace another 200... I don't care, the union will protect ME, the senior guy... At least my productivity, paycheck, and benefits will increase in the USA's most ademic economic period in history!!! Watch what our self-appointed leaders at JBPA will provide for us!!! I can't wait!!!!

And just to set the record straight there is NOT going to be 300 Furloughs the second a union is voted in. that is nothing but company issued FUD FEAR, UNCERTAINTY AND DOUBT !!! It is tactic #1.

We are not 300 fat that number was thrown out when oil was in the run up to $147 a barrell and jetblue was dealing with the reality that selling an additional 15 aircraft was in the works in addition to the shared sacrifice of potential 55-60 hour monthly bid divisors.

Take a look at the daily reserves. Most days end up in the red or close. Every day of every weekend are always red.

Plus these part time gigs and opt out programs were only posted as 10 slots each??!!

Plus we are expecting to hire up to 40 new hires into the 190 into the new year.

Dont get me wrong I love other opinions that is how people learn new things but your rant is either out of ignorance with your rosy current situation OR you just take any info thrown at you hook line and sinker

.....