Pilot shortage?????

[BrickTop]

the saddest thing is I still talk to pilots today who really believe there is a shorting gonna come... It's just like the Koolaid people in Guyana, so sad.

Good to know "practical perception" still exists.

 

[waveflyer]

I'm not going to read this thread- but when I hear pilot shortage- I hear that movement will begin again, not that airlines will be paying kids to go to flight school out of high school-
There was a shortage in 2000- I saw hundreds of flights cancelled as airlines tried to keep up- but it wasn't so short, every mediocre pilot would get sucked up into te majors-
I see that scenario happening again -
If you want to be average to below average and are looking for the "shortage" that will get you a job at the majors- good luck with that... Probably won't happen. You might want to put in work and get better

 

[HA25]

I'm not going to read this thread- but when I hear pilot shortage- I hear that movement will begin again, not that airlines will be paying kids to go to flight school out of high school-
There was a shortage in 2000- I saw hundreds of flights cancelled as airlines tried to keep up- but it wasn't so short, every mediocre pilot would get sucked up into te majors-
I see that scenario happening again -
If you want to be average to below average and are looking for the "shortage" that will get you a job at the majors- good luck with that... Probably won't happen. You might want to put in work and get better

So would you define 7 type ratings with, 6000+ total time with both 121 and 135 PIC and with no failures over 15 years, a 4 year degree in accounting and never fired at a job as as below average?

Still no word from WN, FedEx or anyone else good.

Problem? No strong internal ref. It's "who you know", not quality that gets you "in" these days.

 

[vetrider]

So would you define 7 type ratings with, 6000+ total time with both 121 and 135 PIC and with no failures over 15 years, a 4 year degree in accounting and never fired at a job as as below average?

Still no word from WN, FedEx or anyone else good.

Problem? No strong internal ref. It's "who you know", not quality that gets you "in" these days.

You're timing is off. Anyone else 'good?' Are you like cousin Eddie's unemployed for 6 years relative holding out for a management position? Even if times are good, not everyone gets on at some place 'good.'

It will get tight for the airlines again. And there will still be guys with degrees, time, and everything else at the wazoo who aren't on someplace 'good.'

 

[HA25]

You're timing is off. Anyone else 'good?' Are you like cousin Eddie's unemployed for 6 years relative holding out for a management position? Even if times are good, not everyone gets on at some place 'good.'

It will get tight for the airlines again. And there will still be guys with degrees, time, and everything else at the wazoo who aren't on someplace 'good.'

...thus my point about the pilot shortage, or lack thereof.

 

[flythere]

So would you define 7 type ratings with, 6000+ total time with both 121 and 135 PIC and with no failures over 15 years, a 4 year degree in accounting and never fired at a job as as below average?

Still no word from WN, FedEx or anyone else good.

Problem? No strong internal ref. It's "who you know", not quality that gets you "in" these days.

So with all that time, "types" and world travel, you don't have any connections at the above places??? This aviation industry is a very small world! What is a STRONG internal ref???

What is your definition of "good"?

Sounds like you may be waiting for a while!!!

 

[duc driver]

The US is the only country in the world that requires a pilot to have a 3rd level education. Total waste of time in my opinion. Why spend all that money on an education your never going to use. I'm all for educating myself and have 3 degrees but getting one for the sake of checking a box on an app for a skilled profession...... I still don't understand that one.

 

[pilotyip]

I'm not going to read this thread- but when I hear pilot shortage- I hear that movement will begin again, not that airlines will be paying kids to go to flight school out of high school-
There was a shortage in 2000- I saw hundreds of flights cancelled as airlines tried to keep up- but it wasn't so short, every mediocre pilot would get sucked up into te majors-
I see that scenario happening again -
If you want to be average to below average and are looking for the "shortage" that will get you a job at the majors- good luck with that... Probably won't happen. You might want to put in work and get better

Well here we go again with the luck and timing play no part in anyone's career, only hard work from a chosen person is the path to success. I think I got you to admit in that thread, yes they do play a part, but you have to be ready to exploit them.

My story of the guy taking the $400/mo job as a DA-20 F/O, where he paid for his training in the DA-20 using his GI Bill. That job turned into Fedex. Or the guy who jumped from SWA in 2001 for the dream job at DAL, or the guy who jumped from DAL to PamAm in 1969. All that hard work, net working did wonders for those guys. Was it luck, or stupid planning because they did not work hard?

BTW. You guys are using hte "Pilot Shortage" verbiage, I have not used that, I have talked about the hiring boom where there are more jobs and as the markets absorbs the upper end of the pool of available jobseekers. The employers starting down to the lower end of the food chain, like JUS, will redefine competitive minimums in order to fill seat. That will drift up the chain, maybe never reaching the FedEx or SWA level, but it is coming

 

[Captain X]

NEVER!???!!! What if we educated the up and coming pilots to command their righteous earnings. To me, being paid equivalent to a carpet cleaner is not a leveling playing ground. With all due respect to laborers, most pilots have spent money on a 4yr. degree plus flight school and have accumulated student loans only to qualify for food stamps. We CAN do something and SHOULD. I lecture at high schools and warn the bright and eager shiny jet syndrome scholars of their futures. May be that's not enough. I love AVIATION and want to encourage our youth. I am asking all of you to share your thoughts and wisdom in this matter. If we can start from the bottom, we can recreate a well respected aviation community that was lost in our generation.... Any thoughts????

My thoughts...and nothing personal here...you're giving the same worn-out arguments and ideology that everyone else has for the last 15 years...

 

[HA25]

My story of the guy taking the $400/mo job as a DA-20 F/O, where he paid for his training in the DA-20 using his GI Bill. That job turned into Fedex. Or the guy who jumped from SWA in 2001 for the dream job at DAL, or the guy who jumped from DAL to PamAm in 1969. All that hard work, net working did wonders for those guys. Was it luck, or stupid planning because they did not work hard?

And there is one place where Yip and I have to fully agree...

all you queens who try to paint yourself as somehow above those of us who didn't land the dream gig just because you did, somehow forget that 4/5ths of this industry is dumb luck...

I have a close friend who's a 777 Check Airman at AMR and one of their youngest captains... he was on top of the world for most of his career, and now he faces being junior to some AWA A320 guy...

Be careful how you judge others that ye not be likewise judged.

 

[HA25]

and am I the only one who's finding it ironic that we're now discussing Fedex and Southwest as somehow the "Golden Egg" of jobs?

Really? I never even bothered to apply to either back in 1999 when I was getting on at American.... Who would have known?

I certainly didn't..

AND DONT LIE... you didn't' either!

 

[pilotyip]

And there is one place where Yip and I have to fully agree...

all you queens who try to paint yourself as somehow above those of us who didn't land the dream gig just because you did, somehow forget that 4/5ths of this industry is dumb luck...

Be careful how you judge others that ye not be likewise judged.

Thank you, sounds like you have been there done that, too bad you could not have worked as hard as wavy and landed that dream job.

 

[Whine Lover]

" I'm all for educating myself and have 3 degrees but getting one for the sake of checking a box on an app for a skilled profession...... I still don't understand that one."

Maybe it's time to get that 4th degree. ( ? )

 

[HA25]

Thank you, sounds like you have been there done that, too bad you could not have worked as hard as wavy and landed that dream job.

worked for two startups, both of which failed with in 2 years.... either of which could have been the next "Gig".... it's complex, and anyone who tries to say it's not is a bold face liar.

 

[waveflyer]

You guys go ahead and depend on luck-
I'll be working- and not resting on my laurels with the "golden egg" job-
If I were hiring, I'd require a 4 year degree- but I'd also examine the quality of it and what it meant to the person. Those who hire in the airlines tend to agree with me.
FMS- things change and they will change again-
Your success depends on your ability to keep your ear to the ground, build meaningful relationships, stay current, stay growing, keep the learning curve going up- but always stay in an airplane- try and make wise choices. Learn from all of it. Put pressure on your opportunities- then be patient.
Timing is part of it. There is no pilot shortage or hiring boom now- there will be again and your job is to be ready when that time comes.

Always, always keep learning and working on yourself. Strive to be a better human being in all areas every day- be driven to that broad end- and your career and life will be great.

 

[HA25]

Thanks for the words of encouragement wave. Will do!

 

[waveflyer]

As far as FedEx and Swa- these two highlight how to approach applying for a job in this career-
Two very different processes-
FedEx requires connections - if it's unchanged, then that means 3 people, the more influential the better, who will recommend you above everyone else.
That means networking and building on connections- laying the foundation of those genuine relationships years ahead of time. And it requires persistence and effort to keep up with.

SWA doesn't allow recommendations until you get the call- but that doesn't mean you shouldn't visit dallas with a SWA friend -
They're both about culture and being good people- cant have a rep that will burn you down-
But ANY airline pilot job requires you to know intimately the specific differences in their processes.

If you're not willing to do that basic work - they shouldn't invite you in or hire you.

 

[HA25]

I'm quite familiar with the process at all the jobs I apply to. Trust me, though you seem to think otherwise, in not taking the lazy approach.

 

[vetrider]

...thus my point about the pilot shortage, or lack thereof.

What I meant about there still being guys with degrees, time, etc aplenty who still aren't someplace 'good' is that they will be working for 'lesser' airlines everywhere. Not that those people would be at home waiting for the phone to ring.

There are a whole lot more 'lesser' airlines than 'good' ones. It is true that there will never be a shortage for whomever the 'good' airlines are at the time. There aren't enough good spots for all of us.

 

[pilotyip]

and am I the only one who's finding it ironic that we're now discussing Fedex and Southwest as somehow the "Golden Egg" of jobs?

Really? I never even bothered to apply to either back in 1999 when I was getting on at American.... Who would have known?

I certainly didn't..

AND DONT LIE... you didn't' either!

Since I mentioned those in a post, I don't if this was directed to me or not. But true I did not apply at SAW or FedEx in the 1999, because I was 56 years old and could not afford the pay cut and then have to retire at age 60. Actually not being hired by UAL in 1996 was actually one of the better things that happened to me. My net working that lead me to JUS was actually one of the best things to happen in my career.