Pilot shortage?????

[HA25]

The gig is up yip- you're trying to sell the handful of college-averse pilots who will take that night school/online school route with you up in YIP- you get a motivated, cheap pilot who will be around quite a bit longer than most.... We get it- they can go that route if they wish- but we see the agenda you got.
Btw, college can also be an untradable, fantastic life experience if you make it one. Or it can be a box to check on an app. Your choice- I didn't go a traditional route right out of hs- but even with my CC stint I wouldn't trade any of my college experience for anything- much of which is a social education- how to work with people- how to talk to people- etc- etc-
It's made me a much better airline pilot-
IMO- my flying ability and experience got me interviews- who I am as a person, much of which was developed in college, got me jobs.

NEVER SKIMP ON YOUR TRAINING OR YOUR EDUCATION- THOSE HOLES WILL FOLLOW YOU AND HAMPER YOU THE REST OF YOUR LIFE-

and you've just summed up Yips total world view when it comes to our profession... better than his own signature even does.

 

[DA10]

Your choice- I didn't go a traditional route right out of hs- but even with my CC stint I wouldn't trade any of my college experience for anything- much of which is a social education- how to work with people- how to talk to people- etc- etc-
It's made me a much better airline pilot-
IMO- my flying ability and experience got me interviews- who I am as a person, much of which was developed in college, got me jobs.

Holy run-on sentences, Batman! Ever go to grammar class while working on this social education?

 

[pilotyip]

IMO- my flying ability and experience got me interviews- who I am as a person, much of which was developed in college, got me jobs.

NEVER SKIMP ON YOUR TRAINING OR YOUR EDUCATION- THOSE HOLES WILL FOLLOW YOU AND HAMPER YOU THE REST OF YOUR LIFE-

That is right you are harder working, more motivated and more experienced, that is why you succeded, luck and timing had nothing to do with your career.

BTW I totally agree with YOUR QUOTE IN CAPS, but education comes from many places besides college. But to each his own.

 

[dillfer]

The college degree box is just there to weed out applicants. Gotta agree with YIP, it really has nothing to do with flying. Just a way to shove apps into another pile.

I gathered most of my social skills from college too. But it was as a bartender. Didn't get a whole lot of social skills from the classroom. I guess you could say that you can learn social skills from the whole college experience, but you could say that about a person who gets his first job at Red Lobster after he moves out of his parents house.

There's a much better substitute for the college experience, its called LIFE. Guys that have a 4 year degree and think that that's the only way to do things have a very small vision of the world. Their's more than one way to skin a cat, and only a few wrong ways. Kind of like their's a lot of ways to fly an airplane and only a few wrong ways.

Yah, and I have a four year degree. A complete waste of time and money. Don't get me wrong, I had a good time. But probably would've been better off buying an airplane building a bunch of time and then going to Alaska or flying tours somewhere.

 

[fam62c]

Man, this just keeps going on and on. Control what you can and don't worry about the rest of it. If a carrier requires a 4-year degree then that's that; if you want to fly there you need a degree. If the company doesn't require a degree then you don't need one, it is what it is. You can debate until you're blue in the face and it won't change a thing.

Personally I don't care if the person sitting next to me has a degree or not as long as they are a good pilot and are enjoyable to work with but I don't design hiring criteria and I'm guessing that nobody else here does either. It's a competitive world out there and, all other things being equal, the person with more education will have an advantage in the hiring process; right or wrong that's just the way that it is. This thread has gone on way too long.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Go to college when you are mature enough to make a $100K decision. Then if somebody fronts you the $100K, so much the better. If they don't, you figure out how to make that investment in yourself because you are absolutely sure that it will pay you back many times over.

Making college into 13-16th grade is foolish. Start early with confident kids who prove they are able to make good decisions by making good decisions and lots of them.

 

[Indy319FA]

Watched The Right Stuff a few months ago. Wasn't Yeager passed up for the space program because he didn't have a degree? Guess it can cost anyone no matter who you are.

He was passed up because he didn't have an engineering degree. The first group of astronauts were essentially project managers as well as astronauts so the job involved having engineering skills as well as pilot skills.

My point about Yeager was that even the military (including the Air Force), given the circumstances, will hire and make officers of people without college degrees. College degrees outside of specialized fields (like medecine or engineering) are nothing more than a way to cull the herd. Hell you don't even have to have a college degree to get into Med school or Law school (although most schools will take those with degrees over non degreed). In times of great demand it really isn't necessary. When there are large numbers of applicants for very few jobs then a degree becomes important. A good high school education proves you can read, write, and understand enough math to do most any job. A college degree proves you have the discipline to sit through a course of study and are trainable. One can also prove their trainability through work experiences outside of college as well.

I'm not saying a degree is a waste of time. I have two degrees and a Master's degree because I enjoy studying and learning new things in a structured environment. Not everyone likes this or has the time to do it, but it doesn't mean they aren't smart and capable people. Some of the smartest people I have ever met have no college degree, and some of the dumbest people I have ever met are college professors with PHds. There is an old saying, those that can, do.....those that can't teach college. If not for a college campus some of these guys would starve to death.

 

[pilotyip]

YIP- you get a motivated, cheap pilot who will be around quite a bit longer than most.... We get it- they can go that route if they wish- but we see the agenda you got.

yea like all those guys who came and went to NWA, DAL, SWA, NJ, FedEx, UPS, etc. It is a real joy in my life that I helped them get that experience that allowed the next move. Most are still my friend and we stay in touch. I love that part of this job

Btw, college can also be an untradable, fantastic life experience if you make it one.

Having done both the military and college, my experience in the military was an untradable, fantastic life experience if you make it one. It is all in perspective. All that being said my college buddies and I still get together and a have good times.

 

[tomgoodman]

Watched The Right Stuff a few months ago. Wasn't Yeager passed up for the space program because he didn't have a degree?

Yeager says he wasn't interested in the job anyway. He was already a F-100 Squadron Commander in 1959, made O-6 in 1960, and then took command of the Test Pilot School. The Right Stuff movie took some liberties with the time line of events.

http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/yea0int-6

 

[Flyby1206]

Ohhh my god, are we seriously comparing Chuck Yeager with non-degree pilot applicants at a 121 airline? C'mon now.

I give up. Yes, every non-degree pilot applicant is a special snowflake just like Yeager, Gates, Dell, Lebron, etc.

 

[Andy]

Yeager worship? His reputation as one of the world's biggest jerks was reinforced to me a decade ago. One of my UPT students asked Yeager what he could do to be a better pilot. Yeager gave him an answer that can't be repeated here.
A Guard unit that I flew for was retiring the F-4. They contacted Yeager offering him a spot in their final flight. His response was that he could fly any plane he wanted at Test Pilot School; why would he want to fly an old POS F-4?

Yeager would have made a terrible airline pilot.

http://www.hdforums.com/forum/off-topic/194348-i-meet-chuck-yeager.html
http://www.aviationbanter.com/showthread.php?t=56569
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4659990/

 

[waveflyer]

yea like all those guys who came and went to NWA, DAL, SWA, NJ, FedEx, UPS, etc. It is a real joy in my life that I helped them get that experience that allowed the next move. Most are still my friend and we stay in touch. I love that part of this job

Sounds like a great opportunity. Actually, I have a pilot who might be a perfect fit for you, Yip. Are you hiring? Tell me a bit about the operation, what are the pay and schedules like?

(c'mon, trying to help you sell this gig)

 

[Sir Innocenti]

Don't forget we have regional pilots because the mainline guys did not want those little T-prop pilots on their seniority list. If far thinking pilots at the majors had said sure come board, sure you will start a dirt wages, but in 5 years you be making good money as a 73 F/O we would not have this problem. Look at Comair, they raised their costs to the mainline in order to pay the pilots, so flying get set someplace else to keep the wages at the mainline. This is not so much a management problem as it is a senior pilots protecting themselves at the expense of the junior pilot.

RH: This is the truest statement EVER written on FI! If more egotistical, megalomaniacal pilots would have realized this, we wouldnt have ever derived to the current regional crapshow we have today.

 

[Ridgeback]

NEVER!???!!! What if we educated the up and coming pilots to command their righteous earnings. To me, being paid equivalent to a carpet cleaner is not a leveling playing ground. With all due respect to laborers, most pilots have spent money on a 4yr. degree plus flight school and have accumulated student loans only to qualify for food stamps. We CAN do something and SHOULD. I lecture at high schools and warn the bright and eager shiny jet syndrome scholars of their futures. May be that's not enough. I love AVIATION and want to encourage our youth. I am asking all of you to share your thoughts and wisdom in this matter. If we can start from the bottom, we can recreate a well respected aviation community that was lost in our generation.... Any thoughts????

The problem is young pilots never get into flying for the money. The get into it to tell chicks at the bar they fly jets. They are already told not to expect any money until they make to the majors.

 

[vetrider]

I heard that during the CAL strike Yeager made a comment about the Continental pilots 'being a bunch of babies who should get back to work.' I don't know if that is true or not, does anyone remember one way or another?

 

[pilotyip]

The college degree box is just there to weed out applicants. Gotta agree with YIP, it really has nothing to do with flying. Just a way to shove apps into another pile.

Personally I don't care if the person sitting next to me has a degree or not as long as they are a good pilot and are enjoyable to work with but I don't design hiring criteria and I'm guessing that nobody else here does either.

One can also prove their trainability through work experiences outside of college as well. Some of the smartest people I have ever met have no college degree, and some of the dumbest people I have ever met are college professors with PHds. There is an old saying, those that can, do.....those that can't teach college. If not for a college campus some of these guys would starve to death.

Thanks, you guy seem to get it.

BTW All this talk about running up all this debt for college and then taking a crap paying job. Why run up the debt for college, you can get the crap paying job without the degree. You can do like the JUS pilt, get the job, have the company pay for a good deal of your degree through tuition reimbursement and get a job as a Corp pilot at Fortune 5 company.

 

[waveflyer]

Originally Posted by pilotyip
Don't forget we have regional pilots because the mainline guys did not want those little T-prop pilots on their seniority list. If far thinking pilots at the majors had said sure come board, sure you will start a dirt wages, but in 5 years you be making good money as a 73 F/O we would not have this problem. Look at Comair, they raised their costs to the mainline in order to pay the pilots, so flying get set someplace else to keep the wages at the mainline. This is not so much a management problem as it is a senior pilots protecting themselves at the expense of the junior pilot."



Credit where credit is due- I didn't see this quote- but very true Yip-

 

[mbw]

Chucky

While we're waiting for the greatest pilot shortage to happen....

FYI...Originally, Yeager was never supposed to fly the X1. Bob Hoover was to fly it. Hoover recommended Yeager after he couldn't do it and the rest is history, (I think Bob was hurt or too tall or something...can't remember)

 

[HA25]

the saddest thing is I still talk to pilots today who really believe there is a shorting gonna come... It's just like the Koolaid people in Guyana, so sad.

 

[Whine Lover]

The "Pilot Shortage" has been here for 10 years:

Pilots have been "shorted" in their :

- Paychecks

- Healthcare benefits

- Retirements

Etc., etc., etc.