Pilot Shortage

[gunfyter]

The analogy is correct.

Reasons the need for compensation should be higher for Doctors is the same/similar reasons wages should be high for Pilots. Again see Wealth of Nations section of the Wages of Labor.

Part of the reason for the AMA is to protect Doctors compensation.

 

[WabiSabi]

Like I said, log off, got to truck driving school and go drive a truck with the rest of the blue collar group. Keep trying to be right, you're still just another dumb ass complaining like a little bit** about the choices you made.

Aren't Jet Blue pilots "blue collar"?

ba dump bump!:laugh:

 

[pilotyip]

Stop that

Not sure you really have a handle on this AMA analogy. There are a LOT of Board-certified doctors out there making just over $100K, and many more at less than a 15-year NJA captain. Most doctors have seen a huge erosion in their compensation over the last 15 years.

If you want to talk about shortages, wait until you see how hard it is to find a primary care doctor here in the U.S. 5-10 years from now. It just doesn't pay.

But point taken...as a pax, I won't fly regionals anymore. It has nothing to do with the aircraft, it's the inexperienced crews.

This is a pilot board, stop dealing in reality, here the world revolves around pilots, over worked, under paid, under appreciated, not respected, and not recognized for being the only people at company who do any of the work that makes an aviation organization run.

 

[gunfyter]

Reality?

NumberCruncher said NJA couldn't afford the 2005 Pilot raises.... But reality is we did not get enough so we needed another raise in 2007.

Can raises in Willow Run be far behind?

 

[pilotyip]

already happened

Reality?

NumberCruncher said NJA couldn't afford the 2005 Pilot raises.... But reality is we did not get enough so we needed another raise in 2007.

Can raises in Willow Run be far behind?

Already did them, we are kind of the NJ of YIP, everyone on the field had to match us when we raised our pay, increased days off, all days off hard, full pay from the first day, per-diem advances, relocation allowances, tuition assistance, and no training contract. Well Ameristar couldn't get rid of their training contract, I wonder why? BTW no trouble filling our classes and grooming pilots for their next job at NJ. NJ seems to like them. We are proud of pilots who gone on to better jobs.

 

[captain dad]

Already did them, we are kind of the NJ of YIP, everyone on the field had to match us when we raised our pay, increased days off, all days off hard, full pay from the first day, per-diem advances, relocation allowances, tuition assistance, and no training contract. Well Ameristar couldn't get rid of their training contract, I wonder why? BTW no trouble filling our classes and grooming pilots for their next job at NJ. NJ seems to like them. We are proud of pilots who gone on to better jobs.

Why would you be proud to have turnover at your company? No slam intended, I just don't get it.

 

[Flybet3]

This is a pilot board, stop dealing in reality, here the world revolves around pilots, over worked, under paid, under appreciated, not respected, and not recognized for being the only people at company who do any of the work that makes an aviation organization run.

DAAAAAAAAAAMN! I like that. You my friend have your feet on the ground LOL

 

[Flybet3]

Just so everyone can understand my point of view...
Do we deserve more money, yes we do.
Are we sometimes mistreated, yes we are.
and blah blah blah. But the fact of the matter is that we pretty much did this to our selves. We have all taken a "low" paying job to get the experience.
Regionals in the "old" days paid sh**, plain and simple and people we OK with it b/c the mentality was "Just a few years of this crap and I'll be on my way to the Majors".
Ok so then "regional jets" come in and people decide "Oh it's jet PIC time, sure I'll fly it for a bit while I get my PIC time up. I'm gonna be gone anyways" Then 9/11 hits and before you know it what was suppose to be 4 years at the most is now 10 years. Now guys are unhappy and pissed about having to fly a regional jet most likely for the rest of the career for not enough money. But WE signed the contracts agreeing to those wages.
Things have changed, to the world now we are nothing more than Glorified bus drivers! It sad, but it's true. Things in the good'ol US of A are not like they use to be. Will they every be the same like before? I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath either. My eyes now have focused on NON-US carriers (Cathay, Emirates etc.) I do believe that at some point we will have the upper hand again, but unfortunatly the greed of Airline Managers and other selfish pilots will most likely keep things like they are now.
But lets face it! at the end of the day it still beats the HELL OUT OF WORKING!

 

[El Piloto Chido]

FlyBet. Hey punk! Back to those truck driver comments: I'd like to see you handle a Kenworth hauling a load of logs through the Tehachepi Pass in a blizzard- it might be blue collar, but it's nothing to be ashamed of. I drove a truck in my early 20s to pay for college. In fact, I'd wager that alot of guys on this board had to wear a blue collar at one time or another, including all the former military folks out there who wore stripes instead of bars. Stones in glass houses "bro".

Oh, and another thing, you boast of OUR professionalism, yet you mangle the English langauge like a piece of roadkill. So, you have your eye on the likes of "Cathay or Emirates?" Ok, you owe me a beer on that one, because I laughed so hard I spilled the one I was drinking all over my shirt. Hey, at the phase I interview just tell them about your past work as a 'civilian whore' and 'shejohn inspector,' and how you often find yourself positioned 'between 4 buttcheeks.' Oh Jesus, now I'm laughing so hard the stuff's running out my nose.

You either:
A) Were drunk when you posted earlier.
B) Are 16 years old, with cap on sideways, and a pimped out Dodge Neon.
C) Are an intentional flame war starter.
D) Or all of the above.

 

[gunfyter]

DAAAAAAAAAAMN! I like that. You my friend have your feet on the ground LOL

Not good for a Pilot.

 

[Flybet3]

FlyBet. Hey punk! Back to those truck driver comments: I'd like to see you handle a Kenworth hauling a load of logs through the Tehachepi Pass in a blizzard- it might be blue collar, but it's nothing to be ashamed of. I drove a truck in my early 20s to pay for college. In fact, I'd wager that alot of guys on this board had to wear a blue collar at one time or another, including all the former military folks out there who wore stripes instead of bars. Stones in glass houses "bro".

There's NOTHING wrong with doing those kinds of work. I installed windows in houses for a bit after high school to and even drove a Small truck part time for a bread company. I did it to help me pay for my flight training. I realize and respect the fact that some of US worked hard to get our ratings. I'm pretty sure the just like me you worked very hard and long to get to fly airplanes. My point is that some people dont even know how hard it WAS for some of us to become Pilots. We (atleast I did) heard back them (1999) of how bad it was and how under appreciated and underpaid pilots were. Even after all of that we became pilots b/c we loved flying.
Then you got some people that all they do is bit*** and moan about how terrible it is and how it's better to go work at Home Depot. And that's FINE if they want to do it, everyone can change careers if they feel like it. Some people either dont love flying as much as some of us or they got into flying for all the wrong reasons. But the worst are the ones that hand out "advice", terrible advice if you ask me... and still can't stop complaining about their jobs and keep infecting others, instead of just quitting all together and moving on.
It just never fails to amaze me how ungrateful some people are about their jobs, Wether it's to "God, Buddah, Ala or Life".
Why do I say this? B/c I have been around people in third world countries that have no jobs, can't get a job because of their age (the older you are the least chance to find work) and are trying to do any job in order to feed their family.
And here WE are blessed with being able to be a bit picky about jobs, and all WE do is complain all the time, never be happy and act as if we have it the worst. I do feel that sometimes WE forget how hard it can really be, and how eventhough we could make more money we still some times work "PHYSICALLY" less that many other people. Once again...Do I think we should get more money for our high risk jobs? YES
Would I like to no longer feel like I have a gun to my head when I go to work? YES "just like doctors I'm sure".
Do I think we are sometimes mistreated? YES
Do I think there are jobs out there that pay more? YEEEEEES! (but once again if you got into flying to get rich then you might as well get out)
Do I think that alot of pilots just like to bit** and moan about everything? YES, don't believe me? Go to the foreign carriers page and look at some of the Emirates guys already beginning to complain about a great paying job with lots of perks.

[/QUOTE]
Hey, at the phase I interview just tell them about your past work as a 'civilian whore' and 'shejohn inspector,' and how you often find yourself positioned 'between 4 buttcheeks.' [/QUOTE]
Ummm where's your sense of humor man? Grow some bolas my friend, unless you've got a Shejohn. Then I would need to inspect you.

[/QUOTE]
You either:
A) Were drunk when you posted earlier.
B) Are 16 years old, with cap on sideways, and a pimped out Dodge Neon.
C) Are an intentional flame war starter.
D) Or all of the above.
[/QUOTE]

A) I wouldn't say drunk. :beer:
B) Does a Toyota Sienna count?
C) Negative
D) Negative

 

[Flybet3]

Not good for a Pilot.

AHAHAHAHAHA! I knew that one was coming.

 

[pilotyip]

Easy to answer

Why would you be proud to have turnover at your company? No slam intended, I just don't get it.

No offense taken. We are an entry-level job; the on-demand business is a tuff business. It wears upon you and there are better jobs out there in terms of QOL. We are proud of our role in giving the finest training available at our level of the business. It excites us to see our pilots succeed based upon what they have learned at USA Jet. We don’t loose pilot except to places like NJ, SWA, FedEx, DAL, etc, Why would you stay at YIP on a pager if you could works at a place like that. Funny thing when these pilots are between jobs for any reason they call up and see if they can come back even at the bottom of the seniority list. Turnover helps recruiting, because there is quicker movement through the seats and our track record of getting the skills for your next job move is impressive. If you can’t move it is a place you can make 100K after about 7-10 years and have the best life you can while working in the wear a pager business.
USA Jet is the finest DA-20 operator in the On-Demand business. But we offer many things beyond QOL for a potential candidate to consider. We feel our training program is good enough to train anyone who has basic flying skills.

USA Jet does all of its training under Part 121 N & O; the DA-20 has 5 weeks of full time ground school prior to starting sim training, which runs one week and 25 hours for F/O's. All DA-20 F/O's receive 25 hours of supervised IOE prior to being released to line operations, we observe 100 min time in seat for pairing restrictions and in the past have turned down trips because of only low time pairs available. We have not hired a Captain off the street since 1998. Our safety record speaks for it self and is the standard for the industry. No training is done in airplanes on ride along legs. We have had pilots go to major airlines and tell us, except for fancy bells and whistles, the USA Jet training was as good as they got at their major. No USA Jet pilot has failed training at his next job. At an unnamed national passenger operator, 50% of the new hire pilots washed out of DC-9 training, USA Jet pilots had a 100% pass rate based upon their USA Jet Training. Some pilots hired by a large player in the business waived all testing and sim evals for USA Jet pilots, because of the known quality of their USA Jet Training.

While in full time ground school you are paid full pay of $34 K per year on the first day of ground school. Pilots also receive a $300 advance per-diem check the first week, and are given a room at a local motel for 15 days while looking for a local residence. We have program on track for 6-figure pay in 7 years for all Captains. There are 10 hard days off every 28-day bid period. While in a duty status, you have to live in the immediate YIP area. Pilots are expected to assist in loading and unloading cargo.

Benefits are good with a Blue Cross/Blue Shield plan you would be eligible for after 90 days. 401K is available with a 80% matching on the first 5% of your pay. Tuition reimbursement is available, and two weeks vacation after the first year. Pay goes up for F/O’s $2/hr in the 3rd year. Company covers all hotel costs on the road and gives the pilots $1.83 per hour pre-diem while away from YIP to cover meals.

DA-20 Captain or DC-9 F/O could be as early as a year, depends upon your qualifications, turnover and growth. Time away from home is the luck of the draw, one guy flies 80 hours and is gone from home 6 days, and the next guy flies 45 hours and is gone 12 days. Some guys spend one night a month in a hotel way from home, but fly many night time round trips. It is a non-sked, hence no schedule.

 

[Flybet3]

No offense taken. We are an entry-level job; the on-demand business is a tuff business. It wears upon you and there are better jobs out there in terms of QOL. We are proud of our role in giving the finest training available at our level of the business. It excites us to see our pilots succeed based upon what they have learned at USA Jet. We don’t loose pilot except to places like NJ, SWA, FedEx, DAL, etc, Why would you stay at YIP on a pager if you could works at a place like that. Funny thing when these pilots are between jobs for any reason they call up and see if they can come back even at the bottom of the seniority list. Turnover helps recruiting, because there is quicker movement through the seats and our track record of getting the skills for your next job move is impressive. If you can’t move it is a place you can make 100K after about 7-10 years and have the best life you can while working in the wear a pager business.
USA Jet is the finest DA-20 operator in the On-Demand business. But we offer many things beyond QOL for a potential candidate to consider. We feel our training program is good enough to train anyone who has basic flying skills.

USA Jet does all of its training under Part 121 N & O; the DA-20 has 5 weeks of full time ground school prior to starting sim training, which runs one week and 25 hours for F/O's. All DA-20 F/O's receive 25 hours of supervised IOE prior to being released to line operations, we observe 100 min time in seat for pairing restrictions and in the past have turned down trips because of only low time pairs available. We have not hired a Captain off the street since 1998. Our safety record speaks for it self and is the standard for the industry. No training is done in airplanes on ride along legs. We have had pilots go to major airlines and tell us, except for fancy bells and whistles, the USA Jet training was as good as they got at their major. No USA Jet pilot has failed training at his next job. At an unnamed national passenger operator, 50% of the new hire pilots washed out of DC-9 training, USA Jet pilots had a 100% pass rate based upon their USA Jet Training. Some pilots hired by a large player in the business waived all testing and sim evals for USA Jet pilots, because of the known quality of their USA Jet Training.

While in full time ground school you are paid full pay of $34 K per year on the first day of ground school. Pilots also receive a $300 advance per-diem check the first week, and are given a room at a local motel for 15 days while looking for a local residence. We have program on track for 6-figure pay in 7 years for all Captains. There are 10 hard days off every 28-day bid period. While in a duty status, you have to live in the immediate YIP area. Pilots are expected to assist in loading and unloading cargo.

Benefits are good with a Blue Cross/Blue Shield plan you would be eligible for after 90 days. 401K is available with a 80% matching on the first 5% of your pay. Tuition reimbursement is available, and two weeks vacation after the first year. Pay goes up for F/O’s $2/hr in the 3rd year. Company covers all hotel costs on the road and gives the pilots $1.83 per hour pre-diem while away from YIP to cover meals.

DA-20 Captain or DC-9 F/O could be as early as a year, depends upon your qualifications, turnover and growth. Time away from home is the luck of the draw, one guy flies 80 hours and is gone from home 6 days, and the next guy flies 45 hours and is gone 12 days. Some guys spend one night a month in a hotel way from home, but fly many night time round trips. It is a non-sked, hence no schedule.

I like ya Pilotyip, I can safely say that if I actually liked the YIP area I would consider USA jet for the money and stability. But then again, it's to f**** cold man! I'll stay in the south LOL :beer:

 

[DrewBlows]

A buddy of mine is a captain at Mesa. He said it is getting really scary over there. He is starting to see FO's with temporary commercial certificates. In other words they just got their commercial and still have the paper temporary.

Every new FO will have a temporary certificate because they receive their "SIC type rating" when they complete training. A temporary certificate tells you nothing about an FO's experience.