Pilot response to TSA/G0Jet Proposal

[jjetpilot]

After informational picketing...TSA mgt gave us a horrible proposal to say the least.........

Here is one pilot's response......

After talking to a union rep and getting "lectured" by a flight manager, I think I heard both sides of the story. I will vote NO. Reasons:
*NO scope protection. They can create another alter-ego company the next day if they want to.
*Decrease in pay rises, which by year 4 on the extension will make us so, so underpaid it's not even funny.
*What about per-diem?????????
*No change in rules. This is big. Think everytime you get stuck somewhere because they won't positive space you on your deadhead home. They save money by not opening bases where they should yet they play with you like that.
*They clarified that in the event of a forlough TSA F/Os will go first (read out of seniority forlough........sounds familiar???)
* In as much as I want to upgrade I will try not let this thing go through, TSA pilots won't be the whores of the regional airline world.

We deserve better than this, this proposal is an insult to the TSA pilots. I am willing to work and give in some NOT ALL they are asking for.
A Flight Manager had the nerve to tell us that "if it wasn't because of the GoSh1t pilots who have been working on get it up and going we would have no chance to grow" I was speechless.

 

[labbats]

Best of luck to you. This whole scenario stinks.

 

[smokey999]

Why did you feel the need to post that on here?

 

[Palmtree Pilot]

KEEPING THE INTERESTED INFORMED!

If you don't like what you see, just don't read it.



I sure hope all of our TSA brothers and sisters see thing in the same way as above!!!

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO... NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!


PtP

 

[surplus1]

Does this "proposal" solve the GJ problem and give you one list?

 

[210FR8DOG]

Yes it does create one list but with a catch or two. *************************s only has firm orders for 5 planes right now, they have already hired about 50 or so pilots over there so they are fully staffed already. Even if they get another 5 thats only another 50 or so pilots. They are letting the guys that resigned from TSA and go to Blowjets right back onto the list where they were. Thats BS. Also, the first class at BJs supposedly all got type rated. So even though they are all junior to me(expcept original TSA captains) they will still be flying as CRJ700 cpts. on reserve until my upgrade comes. Maybe another year or two.

The price they are asking for this is too great. they want a 4 year contract extention, our pay raises go from 2.5% annually to 1.0% annually. They tried to pull a fast one and say 1.5% but that is every 18 months. So effectively a 1% annual raise. 2.5% isn't much to brag about anyway.

Also, the BJ guys basically get furlough protection. They will furlough j41 crews out of seniority before they furlough the precious CRJ pukes. This is so wrong. We just won a grievance on that issue anyways, and yet here they go again.

I think the general feeling here at TSA is that we will vote no and take our chances on what happens later. We are sick and tired of fueling the race to the bottom. This is almost identical to the Freedom scandal but we are just slamming our collective feet down on the pavement and screaming out NO!!!

I probably stand the most to lose over here if we vote no since I'm in the top third on the FO list. But I really don't care. Someone at some point has to turn this thing around. We're gonna give it a try. A company that makes over 25 million a year can afford to pay the people that make it for them.

 

[STINKER]

Amen... Vote No!!!

Stinker

 

[lionflyer]

I think a one day sickout will send a clear message. I know I know...it's illegal but jezz. How much more are we gonna take. Screw the good faith crap. It's obvious managment could give a rats butt. You guys could write up every little maintainence item that occurs at the out stations. (dusty PFT's, dim Nav lights etc)

 

[temcgrew]

Why did you feel the need to post that on here?

because this is a regional airline forum.

 

[ex j-41]

Vote No

I am deeply sorry that management is taking advantage of you.
Just goes to show that this Union is "Powerless". Health care went up
30% in the past 5 years....Did your salaries?
The money that went into ScamJets is money that we earned.
It should be used for the employees of Trans States. If management
wants to play like that then maybe everyone should quit all at once.
That is not a work action!

 

[Peleton]

While I admire your will, the simple fact is just like MESA there will be enough back stabbing self centered a holes that will vote for it, and that it will turn out to be a close vote.

My guess is once again the pilot will be his own worse enemy and vote this thing in. While I really hope this is not the case, the history of this profession in the last 30 years leads me to believe this to be true.

 

[Reebo]

Yes it does create one list but with a catch or two. *************************s only has firm orders for 5 planes right now, they have already hired about 50 or so pilots over there so they are fully staffed already. Even if they get another 5 thats only another 50 or so pilots. They are letting the guys that resigned from TSA and go to Blowjets right back onto the list where they were. Thats BS. Also, the first class at BJs supposedly all got type rated. So even though they are all junior to me(expcept original TSA captains) they will still be flying as CRJ700 cpts. on reserve until my upgrade comes. Maybe another year or two..

10 aircraft on firm order, and at these pay rates im sure there will be plenty more.

The price they are asking for this is too great. they want a 4 year contract extention, our pay raises go from 2.5% annually to 1.0% annually. They tried to pull a fast one and say 1.5% but that is every 18 months. So effectively a 1% annual raise. 2.5% isn't much to brag about anyway..

actually 1.5% annually, Aug 1st every year.

Also, the BJ guys basically get furlough protection. They will furlough j41 crews out of seniority before they furlough the precious CRJ pukes. This is so wrong. We just won a grievance on that issue anyways, and yet here they go again..

hopefully our grievance award will prevent this violation of our contract.

I think the general feeling here at TSA is that we will vote no and take our chances on what happens later. We are sick and tired of fueling the race to the bottom. This is almost identical to the Freedom scandal but we are just slamming our collective feet down on the pavement and screaming out NO!!!

I probably stand the most to lose over here if we vote no since I'm in the top third on the FO list. But I really don't care. Someone at some point has to turn this thing around. We're gonna give it a try. A company that makes over 25 million a year can afford to pay the people that make it for them.

for me it boils down to how bad do we want one list, not sure if all of this is worth it. either way we will have the same contract for atleast 3 more years.

 

[ricj41]

We are pretty fired up about this. I just read my email with the full proposal and am even more angry now. This is going to get real bad real quick.

 

[theo]

What is ALPA's position on this proposal?

 

[Reebo]

What is ALPA's position on this proposal?

rumor has it that they made an agreement with the company to remain NEUTURAL. so no endorsement or opposition from the MEC.

 

[taxicabdriver]

Reebo, just wanted to say nice Avtar. Gonna kick the Niners Arse!!

 

[SkywayFO]

DWorthless, should not sign the Fing thing. But that would require a testicular implant.

 

[theo]

I know it is not the best deal in the world, but you really must know that the 50 seat market is dead. If you are going to get any future opportunities it has to be bigger aircraft. This appears to be the best chance to see that growth which we all know is what you need to advance in this business. I would not be so quick to throw away your best growth opportunity in the coming years. But good luck either way.

 

[Reebo]

Reebo, just wanted to say nice Avtar. Gonna kick the Niners Arse!!

Thanks man! should be a good year. If Jackson turns out to be a great power running back and the line protects Bulger, then the Rams will be hard to stop. Cant wait for the Monday nite game against Indy. Lots of points!

 

[Reebo]

I know it is not the best deal in the world, but you really must know that the 50 seat market is dead. If you are going to get any future opportunities it has to be bigger aircraft. This appears to be the best chance to see that growth which we all know is what you need to advance in this business. I would not be so quick to throw away your best growth opportunity in the coming years. But good luck either way.

I agree! still waiting for the road shows, but ill let you know how I feel after hearing from the union next week.

 

[jjetpilot]

This is not the LAST proposal from the company.....mark my words

Stay united or die as an individual........simple as that.

 

[PCL_128]

DWorthless, should not sign the Fing thing. But that would require a testicular implant.

Contrary to your opinion of his testicles (or lack thereof), Captain Woerth has refused to sign a concessionary contract in the recent past. The CCAir contract wasn't signed several years ago. He has to look at the individual circumstances and see what the possibilities are. I don't know what ALPA Legal's opinion is about the TSA/HoJets situation, but I think the scope language is very clear. I don't foresee a scenario were TSA would lose a grievance on this. It might take a little time to go through the process, but I believe the TSA MEC will win their scope grievance and HoJets will cease to exist. If ALPA legal agrees with that assessment, then I'm sure they will advise Captain Woerth not to go forward with this deal. On the other hand, if Legal believes for some reason that the grievance doesn't stand much of a chance, then ALPA really has no choice but to secure stronger scope through this deal. This isn't as cut and dry as you might think. Things behind the scenes are usually much more complicated than the membership thinks.

 

[Cows Go Moo]

While I admire your will, the simple fact is just like MESA there will be enough back stabbing self centered a holes that will vote for it, and that it will turn out to be a close vote.

My guess is once again the pilot will be his own worse enemy and vote this thing in. While I really hope this is not the case, the history of this profession in the last 30 years leads me to believe this to be true.

Yeah, I guess since Mesa's contract was voted in by 80% of its voting pilots there was some real backstabbing going on. Truth be told, Mesa swallowed a concessionary contract for a reason. Actually, several reasons... no more Freedom, CC Air rejoining the ranks, scope, modest miscellaneous improvements, pay raises, etc. Virtually every part of the contract improved. Sucks for us.

 

[Lil Jon]

We are pretty fired up about this. I just read my email with the full proposal and am even more angry now. This is going to get real bad real quick.

any chance at posting that email?

 

[jjetpilot]

This is the cover letter of the LOA...........it WILL be voted down........
September 9, 2005
Dear TSA Crewmember:


Your MEC has decided to let you, the TSA pilots, decide whether to accept the ************************* LOA. When I refer to the ************************* LOA, this includes the three attachments to the LOA. You will cast one vote for the whole package collectively. As you know, the Company and the Association have been in negotiations recently over the terms of this LOA. Because time was of the essence, we asked the company to give us their best and last proposal. While we had the opportunity to clarify the language, the ************************* LOA is, substantively, the company’s last and best offer.



Here are the highlights of the ************************* Letter of Agreement and its attachments:



Extends the current agreement by four years;



Establishes pay rates for the EMB-170/CRJ-700 & EMB-190/CRJ-900;



Provides 1.5% pay bumps annually for all equipment;



Creates a single seniority list composed of TSA and ************************* pilots;



All TSA and ************************* flying will be performed by pilots on the TSA seniority list;



Attachment 2, the NMB Certification Letter, is essentially the legal mechanism which ensures the ************************* pilots will be represented by ALPA;



Attachment 3, the Trans States Holdings Letter, ensures, among other things, that TSA ALPA contract will apply to ************************* and provides that if TSA or the Trans States Holdings creates a carrier in the future, it will come under the TSA CBA.



Pilots already hired by ************************* will keep the positions they have been assigned. They cannot be bumped out of their position in the event of a reduction in another piece of equipment. They can be reduced from their position in the event of a reduction in ************************* flying or a furlough. There are about 40 pilots who have completed or are in ************************* training. The Company has purchased 10 CRJ-700s with delivery expected by December 18. Although they will not be precise, the Company has advised us they expect there will be more growth in the 70 seat equipment.



Please read the ************************* LOA and its attachments carefully, attend the roadshows, and call your representatives if you have any questions.



Sincerely,



Dario Miranda

TSA MEC Chairman

 

[ren]

Why doesn't Hulas take a small pay cut out of his 28 million that he made last year, and pay the pilot group a decent and livable wage. His greed is astounding. This isn't USAirways or Delta. This man owns the whole kit and kaboodle. He "profited" after 911 by taking the flying that the majors couldn't afford to fly. He wants the pilots to work for peanuts while he rakes in the rewards of their hard work with crappy schedules and poor working conditions. This isn't India, Hulas. We are Americans and you are one greedy son of a ....May justice prevail. Always.

 

[ex j-41]

Why doesn't Hulas take a small pay cut out of his 28 million that he made last year, and pay the pilot group a decent and livable wage. His greed is astounding. This isn't USAirways or Delta. This man owns the whole kit and kaboodle. He "profited" after 911 by taking the flying that the majors couldn't afford to fly. He wants the pilots to work for peanuts while he rakes in the rewards of their hard work with crappy schedules and poor working conditions. This isn't India, Hulas. We are Americans and you are one greedy son of a ....May justice prevail. Always. QUOTE]

Your right this is not India, this is America, and what he is doing is capilism at its finest. The blame is not Hulas, it is us. We pay into a union that gets its lawyers from legal aid. Isn't it about time we finally got what we pay for?

 

[SSDD]

O.K. This is what I don't get. We go to work for chicken$hit companies that have a track record of screwing its employees, and expect to turn it into a dream job, in what world?

The solution is to stop taking these jobs to begin with. Look what happened at Skywest. They couldn't fill classes because they didn't pay during training, and guess what? They started paying!!!!

JUST SAY NO!

 

[panamclipper]

[I don't foresee a scenario were TSA would lose a grievance on this. It might take a little time to go through the process, but I believe the TSA MEC will win their scope grievance and HoJets will cease to exist. If ALPA legal agrees with that assessment, then I'm sure they will advise Captain Woerth not to go forward with this deal. On the other hand, if Legal believes for some reason that the grievance doesn't stand much of a chance, then ALPA really has no choice but to secure stronger scope through this deal. This isn't as cut and dry as you might think. Things behind the scenes are usually much more complicated than the membership thinks.[/QUOTE]

You are wrong!

**jets will not disappear. Transtates Holdings needs to have two separate airlines because of the APA 50 Seater Scope clause. It is the only option available for them to be able to fly for United; (aka) Repulblic, Chautauqua, Shuttle America.

 

[FrenchTickler]

which is why I am voting YES

Unbelievable you all are