Pilot Fatigue finally hits the front page!!

[CopilotDoug]

But I was asking you if you are an ALPA pilot or not...

answer the question.... and I'll answer yours...

It's a simple question Rez, no Socratic Method applied. And No, I'm not an ALPA pilot. But you already knew this, so why am I repeating it?

 

[pilotyip]

watch what you ask for

Take your pick, YIP: Lots of jobs at low wages, or a few jobs at respectable pay?

and pre de-reg most of the those good jobs were military pilots, is that still what you want?

 

[CopilotDoug]

and pre de-reg most of the those good jobs were military pilots, is that still what you want?

To maintain pay and benefits? Absolutely. Even if it meant flying a desk.

 

[pilotyip]

pay is still good

To maintain pay and benefits? Absolutely. Even if it meant flying a desk.

Even a regional Captain is in the upper 25% of US wages earners, many of them could not make that money outside of the cockpit.

 

[bpapaDC8]

http://blog.aflcio.org/2008/08/12/mccains-record-shows-big-support-for-outsourcing-us-jobs/

McCain’s Record Shows Big Support for Outsourcing U.S. Jobs

by Mike Hall, Aug 12, 2008

It really shouldn’t come as much of a surprise that Sen. John McCain is not on the side of Ohio workers in their struggle to keep their jobs as a foreign-owned company tries to move them out of state. It’s not the first time McCain’s action as senator—especially when he was chairman of the powerful Senate Commerce Committee where Big Business goes to do business—put the hurt on U.S. workers.

Let’s take a look at his track record.

First, Ohio. In recent days, the workers learned that McCain and his campaign manager, Rick Davis, helped deliver the goods for German-owned DHL’s takeover/merger of the U.S. package delivery company Airborne Express. DHL is threatening to shut down Airborne’s Wilmington, Ohio, hub and kill thousands of working family jobs in southern Ohio.

Most recently, McCain’s support of a foreign-owned company, Airbus manufacturer EADS, was instrumental in EAD’s winning a $35 billion air tanker contract over Seattle based-Boeing Co. Boeing estimated the deal would support 44,000 U.S. jobs—compared with a few thousand low-paying nonunion jobs created under the EADS/Northrop Grumman contract.
Time magazine reported in March that McCain was a “key figure” in the Pentagon’s attempt to complete the tanker deal. According to the news magazine, McCain wrote letters and pushed the Pentagon to change the bidding process so that government subsidies of Airbus could not be considered when deciding to whom to award the contract.

The outcry over the deal and a Government Accountability Office (GAO) investigation into the bidding process forced the Pentagon to reopen the bidding with a more level playing field.

In another instance McCain as recently as 2003 and 2004 voted to waive Buy American laws for defense systems and to exempt six European countries from Buy American requirements—effectively allowing products from those countries to be considered U.S.-made in government and military contract bids.

McCain doesn’t just embrace foreign corporations over U.S. workers when it comes to military contracts—he wants them to play a bigger role in the U.S. aviation industry. In 2000, McCain voted to ease laws banning foreign control of U.S. airlines. He went even further and voted to allow foreign control of U.S. airlines and to allow foreign airlines to operate on U.S. routes.
U.S. aviation workers already are struggling to maintain jobs, wages and health benefits in an industry rife with bankruptcies, mergers and failures. McCain’s support of foreign airlines threatens U.S. jobs and would cause a race to the bottom for wages and outsourcing jobs.

McCain’s job-killing votes go way back. In 1989, not only did he vote to send defense technology and aviation manufacturing jobs to Japan as part of the development of a new aircraft weapons system. He voted against an amendment requiring that U.S. firms share at least 40 percent of the work.

Moving from the air to the sea, McCain also has voted to ship out U.S. seafaring jobs.

The cornerstone of U.S. maritime commercial law is the Jones Act that requires U.S. ships with U.S. crews on domestic port-to-port shipping routes. The act helps maintain U.S. jobs and a trained seafaring workforce and prevents unfair foreign competition. McCain has said he wants “to get rid of the Jones Act” and has actively worked to kill the Jones Act. He even introduced a bill to waive the requirement that U.S.-flagged ships be built in U.S. shipyards with U.S. workers.


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[CopilotDoug]

Even a regional Captain is in the upper 25% of US wages earners, many of them could not make that money outside of the cockpit.

Don't forget to factor in the furloughs and starting over at the bottom each time, and it's not so pretty.

 

[Soverytired]

Wall Street Journal showed up today (9/12) and right on the front page "Pilot Fatigue Spurs Renewed Calls For Safeguards, Shorter Flying Times" Finally not relegated to the back pages.

Thanks for the tip. I'll go pick up a copy of the WSJ . . I used to buy it daily, but $2.00 + tax is a bit rich for a newspaper.

There's no issue more dear to my heart than Congress doing it's duty and instructing the FAA to comply with NTSB and NASA studies on the subject by re-writing the fatigue rules.

It's more important than pension reform, ATC inefficiencies, CEO pay . . you name it. Fatigue has killed numerous pilots and passengers, and it will do so again.

 

[Caveman]

I wasn't an ALPA pilot during the clinton admin... but I do hear that when ALPA called the WH someone picked up the phone...

When Bush took office the phone lines between ALPA and the WH were cut.

How long have you been an ALPA pilot?

The only reason Slick Willy answered the phone is because of campaign contributions and the union's endorsement of him as a candidate. It had little to do with them being sympathetic to labor. Unfortunately, that's the way politics works. If you donate/endorse, you'll have access. If you don't, you won't. Both parties operate the same way.

 

[Caveman]

That mean old nasty conservative anti-labor rag the WSJ puts an article on the cover regarding a topic near and dear to us pilots. What about the beloved and rightously liberal and labor friendly NY Times? Nothing.

 

[CopilotDoug]

The only reason Slick Willy answered the phone is because of campaign contributions and the union's endorsement of him as a candidate. It had little to do with them being sympathetic to labor. Unfortunately, that's the way politics works. If you donate/endorse, you'll have access. If you don't, you won't. Both parties operate the same way.

Interesting, Cavemen. I can see your point. Thanks for the insight. Much appreciated.

 

[Auburn MD Flyer]

I called in FATIGUED at NWA (mainline, DC-9 F/O) and got my walking papers. IMO, Companies really don't care about FAR's or rested & alert pilots, just GREED and the bottom line.

 

[pilotyip]

bottom line?

I called in FATIGUED at NWA (mainline, DC-9 F/O) and got my walking papers. IMO, Companies really don't care about FAR's or rested & alert pilots, just GREED and the bottom line.

without a bottom line there are no pilot jobs

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

When? Been at nwa for 13 years and never heard of a firing over a fatigue call. I think you are leaving a little something out.

I called in FATIGUED at NWA (mainline, DC-9 F/O) and got my walking papers. IMO, Companies really don't care about FAR's or rested & alert pilots, just GREED and the bottom line.

 

[CopilotDoug]

One Piece of the Puzzle

without a bottom line there are no pilot jobs

That's only one part of the puzzle.

 

[pilotyip]

what other parts

That's only one part of the puzzle.

If you have no bottom line; you have no other parts

 

[CopilotDoug]

If you have no bottom line; you have no other parts

But how you get there is the difference. Look at Southwests business practices: They take care of the employee first because that in turn will ensure the customer gets taken care of. Jump to the other side of the spectrum with United: They're taking care of the shareholder first and neglecting the employees. Consequently, they are falling behind the power curve when it comes to making money. Disgruntled employees aren't productive employees.

Why did USAJet bring up their base pay and offer education reimbursements?

 

[waveflyer]

without a bottom line there are no pilot jobs

when pilots crash there is no bottom line. how many scheduling practices are possible for a year or two- but over time are awful for your health? I view many of the scheduling practices in the airlines to be akin to fast food. Just as bad and you better be taking awfully good care of yourself on the few off-days you have to make up for it.

pencil pushers should have a voice- but not the SOLE voice. I've said it so many times-- it doesn't matter if you pay me $10/hour more or less... but when i stop giving a dam^-- you will begin losing money in ways that you cannot account for- and nothing diabolical- but it's human nature when you one day you just aren't going the extra mile and providing service to the customers... and it begins happening all over the company-- b/c management gets shady trying to shave off a few dollars from the employees.

And it's not as if the money that's shaven is going back into the company to make it stronger... right, yip? You DO know where that money has gone recently, don't you?

 

[waveflyer]

Even a regional Captain is in the upper 25% of US wages earners, many of them could not make that money outside of the cockpit.

depends- what does it take to get there? How many people who make that kind of money have invested as much of their own money as pilots? How many take on that kind of responsibility? How many have the talent to do what we do? Or the desire? Do capable pilots grow on trees?

You have a low opinion of pilots. It takes two pilots to fly an RJ- and one of them could easily make more money working at McDonald's.

 

[pilotyip]

anyone can fly an airplane

depends- what does it take to get there? How many people who make that kind of money have invested as much of their own money as pilots? How many take on that kind of responsibility? How many have the talent to do what we do? Or the desire? Do capable pilots grow on trees?

You have a low opinion of pilots. It takes two pilots to fly an RJ- and one of them could easily make more money working at McDonald's.

Anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can fly an airplane. If I can do it, anyone can. Yes I know we all have horror stories of someone who should stay 100' away from all airplanes the rest of his life. I fly as often as I can because I like to fly. 75K-90K per year to do something you like would be an unbelievable job in most people’s books. I do not have a low option of pilots, I hang around them at the airport all the time and talk airplane stories, I have a low option of people who have the job I like and complain about it.

 

[Papps]

Even a regional Captain is in the upper 25% of US wages earners, many of them could not make that money outside of the cockpit.

Apples to Oranges comparison. If you went into tech work or engineering you would make regional captain pay your first day on the job.

When compared to the 5 trillion walmart shelf stockers in the world the pay is high, but when you do an equal comparison to skilled trades, or a useful degree in anything else the pay is mediocre at best.

Im not complaining about the pay, its quite livable. I just think your comparison is a bit bogus.