Pilot Fatigue finally hits the front page!!

[spitfire1500]

Wall Street Journal showed up today (9/12) and right on the front page "Pilot Fatigue Spurs Renewed Calls For Safeguards, Shorter Flying Times" Finally not relegated to the back pages.

 

[SSDD]

Oh, just another article. Remember, FARs are written with blood. There is no blood here, so nothing will change.

 

[Captain Jeff]

Yea... Here is some breaking news..... Tired people screw up. I am sure they will fix this right away. I am holding my breath as we speak.

 

[NEDude]

There is no blood here, so nothing will change.

There is some blood in LIT, apparently just not enough.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

McCain is against reducing fatigue. Reducing fatigue will cost the corporati's money.... McCain is for the Corporations...

Its not Country First rather Corporate First...

 

[Yuppyguppy]

McCain is against reducing fatigue. Reducing fatigue will cost the corporati's money.... McCain is for the Corporations...

Its not Country First rather Corporate First...

FU CK John Mccain you stupid arrogant bastard!

 

[Salukipilot4590]

FU CK John Mccain you stupid arrogant bastard!

Well I wouldn't have said it like that but yeah you and I are on the same wavelength...I think...

 

[waveflyer]

can anyone post the article? I can't pull it up.
Will it include any actual science?
Reversing of sleep schedules and long duty days contribute to fatigue way more than just lot's o flight time.

 

[jetflier]

Keep in mind that the airline profession was at its peak, when a senior captain could buy a new Cadillac on a months take-home pay. (adjusted for inflation, about $50,000 take-home pay).

Then during the President Carter administration, they decided that it was better for the "Jerry Springer crowd", to let them fly for less than a bus fare by forcing the airlines into "de-regulation".
Eventually, the giants of the industry, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern, Braniff and others met their demise.

President Carter is a Democrat !

Recently, de-regulation is being viewed by some as a cause to the airlines financial woes and some form of re-regulation is being explored by officials.

Democrat or Republican ?....good question...

 

[Skippy]

it wont change for a loooong time

 

[PowerCurve]

I flew a 14 day 757 Asia trip. The day I deadheaded back, I was given 15:45 rest and then assigned a 2 day trip for the next day with an 0620 report time. Ah, the life of a reserve pilot.

It was all "legal" scheduling-wise.

I called in "fatigued".

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I sure hope ALPA wastes more time and money on CrewPass and not on fatigue issues.

What a joke, 4 of 8 pilots selected for "random screening" when I went through in CAE.

 

[waveflyer]

Keep in mind that the airline profession was at its peak, when a senior captain could buy a new Cadillac on a months take-home pay. (adjusted for inflation, about $50,000 take-home pay).

Then during the President Carter administration, they decided that it was better for the "Jerry Springer crowd", to let them fly for less than a bus fare by forcing the airlines into "de-regulation".
Eventually, the giants of the industry, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern, Braniff and others met their demise.

President Carter is a Democrat !

Recently, de-regulation is being viewed by some as a cause to the airlines financial woes and some form of re-regulation is being explored by officials.

Democrat or Republican ?....good question...

Well, we should ALL be for capitalism right? My belief is that our problems have come from an underlying lack of foresight to the far reaching and damaging affects of scope relief-- AND... a huge reluctance to change anything about how our career is set up since deregulation. All the power is in mgmt's hands b/c we can't say to them-- "brand x airline is offering me this position for xxx money. what can you offer me?" The ability to individually leave a company has been sacrificed to our seniority system and pay disparity.
In short, our own resistance to change has caused more of our downfall than gov't policy. Plus our lack of unity and strength. We really do need to look at what reforms our own career needs before we start blaming gov't outright.

That being said, the record is clear on Reagan/BushI/BushII and labor. The 'more of the same' line from Dems is bit of a stretch in comparing mccain to the last 3 republican presidents, but when it comes to labor-- it is spot on. Cabotage and baseball style arbitration are on McCain's agenda for airline labor. I'd rather not deal w/ that experiment after the blatant corruption we've dealt w/ for the last 8 years.

That being said-- i've said it before, i'll say it again-- we need an attitude among ourselves that let's everyone know that we are DONE TAKING CUTS. No matter what the financial health of the airlines, no matter who is in office... WE ARE DONE-.

 

[CopilotDoug]

McCain is against reducing fatigue. Reducing fatigue will cost the corporati's money.... McCain is for the Corporations...

Its not Country First rather Corporate First...

Interesting...

What did Clinton do to address this issue?

 

[CopilotDoug]

I sure hope ALPA wastes more time and money on CrewPass and not on fatigue issues.

What a joke, 4 of 8 pilots selected for "random screening" when I went through in CAE.

Don't worry...they haven't been able to do anything about it in the past 35 years, why would they be able to do anything about it now?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Interesting...

What did Clinton do to address this issue?

I wasn't an ALPA pilot during the clinton admin... but I do hear that when ALPA called the WH someone picked up the phone...

When Bush took office the phone lines between ALPA and the WH were cut.

How long have you been an ALPA pilot?

 

[pilotyip]

it created pilot jobs

Then during the President Carter administration, they decided that it was better for the "Jerry Springer crowd", to let them fly for less than a bus fare by forcing the airlines into "de-regulation".
Eventually, the giants of the industry, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern, Braniff and others met their demise.

And if de-reg had not happened would you have a pilot job?

 

[CopilotDoug]

...but I do hear that when ALPA called the WH someone picked up the phone...

I wasn't asking if you were a pilot for ALPA at the time or not...what kind of lasting progressive landmarks were achieved for pilots under a pro-labor democratic POTUS?

 

[CopilotDoug]

And if de-reg had not happened would you have a pilot job?

Take your pick, YIP: Lots of jobs at low wages, or a few jobs at respectable pay?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I wasn't asking if you were a pilot for ALPA at the time or not...what kind of lasting progressive landmarks were achieved for pilots under a pro-labor democratic POTUS?

But I was asking you if you are an ALPA pilot or not...

answer the question.... and I'll answer yours...

 

[CopilotDoug]

But I was asking you if you are an ALPA pilot or not...

answer the question.... and I'll answer yours...

It's a simple question Rez, no Socratic Method applied. And No, I'm not an ALPA pilot. But you already knew this, so why am I repeating it?

 

[pilotyip]

watch what you ask for

Take your pick, YIP: Lots of jobs at low wages, or a few jobs at respectable pay?

and pre de-reg most of the those good jobs were military pilots, is that still what you want?

 

[CopilotDoug]

and pre de-reg most of the those good jobs were military pilots, is that still what you want?

To maintain pay and benefits? Absolutely. Even if it meant flying a desk.

 

[pilotyip]

pay is still good

To maintain pay and benefits? Absolutely. Even if it meant flying a desk.

Even a regional Captain is in the upper 25% of US wages earners, many of them could not make that money outside of the cockpit.

 

[bpapaDC8]

http://blog.aflcio.org/2008/08/12/mccains-record-shows-big-support-for-outsourcing-us-jobs/

McCain’s Record Shows Big Support for Outsourcing U.S. Jobs

by Mike Hall, Aug 12, 2008

It really shouldn’t come as much of a surprise that Sen. John McCain is not on the side of Ohio workers in their struggle to keep their jobs as a foreign-owned company tries to move them out of state. It’s not the first time McCain’s action as senator—especially when he was chairman of the powerful Senate Commerce Committee where Big Business goes to do business—put the hurt on U.S. workers.

Let’s take a look at his track record.

First, Ohio. In recent days, the workers learned that McCain and his campaign manager, Rick Davis, helped deliver the goods for German-owned DHL’s takeover/merger of the U.S. package delivery company Airborne Express. DHL is threatening to shut down Airborne’s Wilmington, Ohio, hub and kill thousands of working family jobs in southern Ohio.

Most recently, McCain’s support of a foreign-owned company, Airbus manufacturer EADS, was instrumental in EAD’s winning a $35 billion air tanker contract over Seattle based-Boeing Co. Boeing estimated the deal would support 44,000 U.S. jobs—compared with a few thousand low-paying nonunion jobs created under the EADS/Northrop Grumman contract.
Time magazine reported in March that McCain was a “key figure” in the Pentagon’s attempt to complete the tanker deal. According to the news magazine, McCain wrote letters and pushed the Pentagon to change the bidding process so that government subsidies of Airbus could not be considered when deciding to whom to award the contract.

The outcry over the deal and a Government Accountability Office (GAO) investigation into the bidding process forced the Pentagon to reopen the bidding with a more level playing field.

In another instance McCain as recently as 2003 and 2004 voted to waive Buy American laws for defense systems and to exempt six European countries from Buy American requirements—effectively allowing products from those countries to be considered U.S.-made in government and military contract bids.

McCain doesn’t just embrace foreign corporations over U.S. workers when it comes to military contracts—he wants them to play a bigger role in the U.S. aviation industry. In 2000, McCain voted to ease laws banning foreign control of U.S. airlines. He went even further and voted to allow foreign control of U.S. airlines and to allow foreign airlines to operate on U.S. routes.
U.S. aviation workers already are struggling to maintain jobs, wages and health benefits in an industry rife with bankruptcies, mergers and failures. McCain’s support of foreign airlines threatens U.S. jobs and would cause a race to the bottom for wages and outsourcing jobs.

McCain’s job-killing votes go way back. In 1989, not only did he vote to send defense technology and aviation manufacturing jobs to Japan as part of the development of a new aircraft weapons system. He voted against an amendment requiring that U.S. firms share at least 40 percent of the work.

Moving from the air to the sea, McCain also has voted to ship out U.S. seafaring jobs.

The cornerstone of U.S. maritime commercial law is the Jones Act that requires U.S. ships with U.S. crews on domestic port-to-port shipping routes. The act helps maintain U.S. jobs and a trained seafaring workforce and prevents unfair foreign competition. McCain has said he wants “to get rid of the Jones Act” and has actively worked to kill the Jones Act. He even introduced a bill to waive the requirement that U.S.-flagged ships be built in U.S. shipyards with U.S. workers.


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[CopilotDoug]

Even a regional Captain is in the upper 25% of US wages earners, many of them could not make that money outside of the cockpit.

Don't forget to factor in the furloughs and starting over at the bottom each time, and it's not so pretty.

 

[Soverytired]

Wall Street Journal showed up today (9/12) and right on the front page "Pilot Fatigue Spurs Renewed Calls For Safeguards, Shorter Flying Times" Finally not relegated to the back pages.

Thanks for the tip. I'll go pick up a copy of the WSJ . . I used to buy it daily, but $2.00 + tax is a bit rich for a newspaper.

There's no issue more dear to my heart than Congress doing it's duty and instructing the FAA to comply with NTSB and NASA studies on the subject by re-writing the fatigue rules.

It's more important than pension reform, ATC inefficiencies, CEO pay . . you name it. Fatigue has killed numerous pilots and passengers, and it will do so again.

 

[Caveman]

I wasn't an ALPA pilot during the clinton admin... but I do hear that when ALPA called the WH someone picked up the phone...

When Bush took office the phone lines between ALPA and the WH were cut.

How long have you been an ALPA pilot?

The only reason Slick Willy answered the phone is because of campaign contributions and the union's endorsement of him as a candidate. It had little to do with them being sympathetic to labor. Unfortunately, that's the way politics works. If you donate/endorse, you'll have access. If you don't, you won't. Both parties operate the same way.

 

[Caveman]

That mean old nasty conservative anti-labor rag the WSJ puts an article on the cover regarding a topic near and dear to us pilots. What about the beloved and rightously liberal and labor friendly NY Times? Nothing.

 

[CopilotDoug]

The only reason Slick Willy answered the phone is because of campaign contributions and the union's endorsement of him as a candidate. It had little to do with them being sympathetic to labor. Unfortunately, that's the way politics works. If you donate/endorse, you'll have access. If you don't, you won't. Both parties operate the same way.

Interesting, Cavemen. I can see your point. Thanks for the insight. Much appreciated.