Piedmont to recieve a true flow

[WSurf]

MEC Update for Aug 6, 2014
August 6, 2014 at 1:24pm

Fellow Pilots:

Despite some rumors floating around, negotiations between ALPA and Piedmont/Group Representatives have moved forward substantially and constructively. We are now working hard to make sure all language accurately reflects our discussions and resolve the last few items. We believe this can be done relatively soon and will be providing more concrete information in the near future.

Just getting an Agreement has not been our goal or yours. Stabilizing and continuing Piedmont Airlines for pilots who want to stay here, providing more robust career progression for pilots who want to move to our mainline partners, and maintaining the favorable contract standards in the Piedmont Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) are the goals we set. We believe that we have negotiated amendments that will allow for a re-fleeting of Piedmont, as the Dash-8 aircraft will be timing out soon. We have also bargained a seniority-based, non-subjective flow-through to US Airways and American, as well as retaining our favorable CBA.

Like every Agreement, this one will have at least a few detractors. Some Piedmont pilots may forget the key goals mentioned above and focus only on the things that they do not like. Well, this pilot group has been clear: You said that achieving our bigger goals meant that we had latitude to make contract amendments that make Piedmont more attractive as a destination for jets and help the Company survive.

We believe firmly that our big goals have been achieved without sacrificing CBA cornerstones. Just as important in this deal is that improvements to the flow-through will be effective upon ratification, but nothing else changes until and unless new aircraft actually start arriving at Piedmont.

Let?s be frank and honest; you may hear complaints from pilots at other airlines who forget or did not know that we negotiated for and were promised jets in 2002. We even won an arbitration on this issue, but those jets were never delivered. Instead, they went to other carriers while we patiently supported their bargaining efforts. Your Negotiating Committee has kept our profession?s interests in mind by always fighting hard for the great contract we have.

Many of us still benefit from a Defined Benefit Retirement Plan, Piedmont pilots still have much lower health care premiums than other carriers, our favorable vacation bidding and scheduling provisions are not found in many other contracts, and many industry peers do not have a real minimum day for both line holding and reserve pilots like we do. Finally, our Dash-8 pay rates are high ? even in comparison with bigger or faster aircraft types. So for us and other pilots, the Piedmont CBA has always and will continue to set a high bar. This has been established by previous Piedmont MECs and Negotiating Committees and we were not about to veer off that course.

Thank you for your patience and support over the many months that it took to negotiate these amendments. We look forward tosharing more information with you soon.

Sincerely,
Captain Bruce Freedman
Piedmont MEC Chairman

 

[WSurf]

Sorry "I" before "E" except after "C"

 

[zasca]

Wait for the fat lady

 

[Nevets]

Will it be at least as rich as envoy's contract? That is the key.

 

[relief tube]

selling out for flow- its what all the hipsters are doing now-adays.

this industry is so eff-ed up. drives me nuts

 

[CX880]

Crappy dash to a jet? Plus a flow? Sells itself.

 

[WSurf]

Crappy dash to a jet? Plus a flow? Sells itself.

Crappy Dash?? Any pilot that isn't any real pilot would not make a statement like that. Totally sums up your whole career on flight info.

Piedmont's fleet will while probably time out over the next 5 years. American wanted to keep flying these Crappy Dash's that are cash cows. So what our MEC did was to ensure a future for any new hire that wants to fly these crappy dashes with a secure job in the real near future at American Airlines..... Not interview, no strings attached... Your date of hire gets you at the largest Airline in the world. Haters gonna hate... While the Airline itself doesn't have a future because no planes are being placed it secures everyone a job.

Get over yourself.... What an idiot!!!

 

[CX880]

Someone is a bit insecure about their equipment.

 

[WSurf]

Someone is a bit insecure about their equipment.

So says the Flight Info Idiot!

 

[WSurf]

Wait... Didn't you go to GoJets??? Blahahahahahahah And I actually gave you time for a response? What was I thinking.... Get back to your CRJ!!

 

[CX880]

Yea it's alright don't worry. You'll get your RJ soon enough. You won't have to worry about your inadequacies.

 

[J.Otto]

Crappy Dash?? Any pilot that isn't any real pilot would not make a statement like that.

HUH??!

You might want to rephrase that into coherent English. Unless it was a Freudian slip, what it really states is that a real pilot would make such a statement as the one you to attempted to retort. I think you mean the opposite. Perhaps your subconscious agrees with CX.

I think you felt so indignant being a TP pilot, you couldn't even get it out properly.

 

[WSurf]

Yeah we've been in the stone ages for so long at Piedmont. The look of confusion upon seeing a Airbus sim might be laughable.

 

[ttuite]

Yea it's alright don't worry. You'll get your RJ soon enough. You won't have to worry about your inadequacies.

Let me see if I understand what you and the other haters are talking about:

1. You have a commuter airline that flies antiquated equipment
2. There are no firm plans to put another fleet type on that certificate
3. There is about a 5 year life cycle on the current aircraft

Their MEC comes along and:

1. Maintains their quality of life and benefits for another contract
2. Gets seniority based flow to American for ALL pilots on the property to insure that nobody loses their job in the case that the airline does not receive any new aircraft.

Somebody in the industry has a problem with this???????

 

[WSurf]

Let me see if I understand what you and the other haters are talking about:

1. You have a commuter airline that flies antiquated equipment
2. There are no firm plans to put another fleet type on that certificate
3. There is about a 5 year life cycle on the current aircraft

Their MEC comes along and:

1. Maintains their quality of life and benefits for another contract
2. Gets seniority based flow to American for ALL pilots on the property to insure that nobody loses their job in the case that the airline does not receive any new aircraft.

Somebody in the industry has a problem with this???????

Winner winner... Chicken dinner!

 

[Nevets]

Crappy Dash?? Any pilot that isn't any real pilot would not make a statement like that. Totally sums up your whole career on flight info.

Piedmont's fleet will while probably time out over the next 5 years. American wanted to keep flying these Crappy Dash's that are cash cows. So what our MEC did was to ensure a future for any new hire that wants to fly these crappy dashes with a secure job in the real near future at American Airlines..... Not interview, no strings attached... Your date of hire gets you at the largest Airline in the world. Haters gonna hate... While the Airline itself doesn't have a future because no planes are being placed it secures everyone a job.

Get over yourself.... What an idiot!!!

That's good....but does it under cut others, especially those who fly for regionals owned by the same holding company? Will this deal be at least as lucrative as Envoys in terms of pilot contract costs?

Let me see if I understand what you and the other haters are talking about:



1. You have a commuter airline that flies antiquated equipment

2. There are no firm plans to put another fleet type on that certificate

3. There is about a 5 year life cycle on the current aircraft



Their MEC comes along and:



1. Maintains their quality of life and benefits for another contract

2. Gets seniority based flow to American for ALL pilots on the property to insure that nobody loses their job in the case that the airline does not receive any new aircraft.



Somebody in the industry has a problem with this???????

Yes, if it undercuts others.

 

[WSurf]

Explain undercut others??? You mean like Republic's contract? Has ALPA told us the baseline for Regional pay and workrules?? Piedmont has a pretty good working contract that's older then the time I've been here. And even with it being that old I'd put it up against almost ever regional today. Our union has fought to keep it industrial leading. We have probably one of the best healthcare deals in terms of what we pay and what we get. Vision, dental included with family cost at about 150.00 a month. Even a few Mainline airlines (US Airways included) have said we have it better then they do.
While we haven't seen the meat and potatoes yet of the contract I'm sure they'll be some things we won't be happy about. But the fact that our union has secured a future so that many of our 25 year plus guys can retire here and that our new hires can feel better about staying knowing that have a job at American is a big deal.

 

[Nevets]

Explain undercut others??? You mean like Republic's contract? Has ALPA told us the baseline for Regional pay and workrules?? Piedmont has a pretty good working contract that's older then the time I've been here. And even with it being that old I'd put it up against almost ever regional today. Our union has fought to keep it industrial leading. We have probably one of the best healthcare deals in terms of what we pay and what we get. Vision, dental included with family cost at about 150.00 a month. Even a few Mainline airlines (US Airways included) have said we have it better then they do.
While we haven't seen the meat and potatoes yet of the contract I'm sure they'll be some things we won't be happy about. But the fact that our union has secured a future so that many of our 25 year plus guys can retire here and that our new hires can feel better about staying knowing that have a job at American is a big deal.

Sure, you have secured your future. I'm sure that's what PSA said as well. I believe I defined undercutting. Seeing that we are talking about a holding company whipsawing three regionals against each other, the deal shouldn't be less lucrative than the most lucrative contract out there, especially Envoy, since it was them who originally stood up to this whipsaw and sacrificed "securing" their future.

 

[WSurf]

Sure, you have secured your future. I'm sure that's what PSA said as well. I believe I defined undercutting. Seeing that we are talking about a holding company whipsawing three regionals against each other, the deal shouldn't be less lucrative than the most lucrative contract out there, especially Envoy, since it was them who originally stood up to this whipsaw and sacrificed "securing" their future.

I agree...... I hope our MEC did hold the line in terms of Envoy. Only problem with us is that we have ZERO leverage. PSA had Leverage, Envoy has Leverage.... Parker doesn't want Piedmont to have 175's. We don't have the facilities that Envoy has. We don't have the resources period. It will cost them more money to shut Envoy down then it would us. An airline that has 38 Turbo Props that are over 20 years old has Zero leverage. Our planes are history over the next 5 years. I see a bigger plan coming to play. I see us slowly going away after each plane times out or maybe a merger with Envoy.

Either way we've been screwed hard in the past by the whipsaws and this secure jobs for everyone on the Piedmont property.

 

[Nevets]

I agree...... I hope our MEC did hold the line in terms of Envoy. Only problem with us is that we have ZERO leverage. PSA had Leverage, Envoy has Leverage.... Parker doesn't want Piedmont to have 175's. We don't have the facilities that Envoy has. We don't have the resources period. It will cost them more money to shut Envoy down then it would us. An airline that has 38 Turbo Props that are over 20 years old has Zero leverage. Our planes are history over the next 5 years. I see a bigger plan coming to play. I see us slowly going away after each plane times out or maybe a merger with Envoy.

Either way we've been screwed hard in the past by the whipsaws and this secure jobs for everyone on the Piedmont property.

Yeah, very tough situation. A merger of the three airlines would be best for all their pilots. Which is why management will fight you for it. Good luck.

 

[xjhawk]

Let me see if I understand what you and the other haters are talking about:

1. You have a commuter airline that flies antiquated equipment
2. There are no firm plans to put another fleet type on that certificate
3. There is about a 5 year life cycle on the current aircraft

Their MEC comes along and:

1. Maintains their quality of life and benefits for another contract
2. Gets seniority based flow to American for ALL pilots on the property to insure that nobody loses their job in the case that the airline does not receive any new aircraft.

Somebody in the industry has a problem with this???????

Can we at Endeavor Borrow your MEC?

 

[ttuite]

I agree...... I hope our MEC did hold the line in terms of Envoy. Only problem with us is that we have ZERO leverage. PSA had Leverage, Envoy has Leverage.... Parker doesn't want Piedmont to have 175's. We don't have the facilities that Envoy has. We don't have the resources period. It will cost them more money to shut Envoy down then it would us. An airline that has 38 Turbo Props that are over 20 years old has Zero leverage. Our planes are history over the next 5 years. I see a bigger plan coming to play. I see us slowly going away after each plane times out or maybe a merger with Envoy.

Either way we've been screwed hard in the past by the whipsaws and this secure jobs for everyone on the Piedmont property.

Surf,
Stop defending yourself. I have no dog in this but I have to tell you given your circumstances you should be taking the MEC boys out to dinner. They made lemonade out of the lemons. He happy and stop defending yourself. Anyone who doesn't get this hasn't been around for long enough to see how the airline industry really works.

 

[WSurf]

Surf,
Stop defending yourself. I have no dog in this but I have to tell you given your circumstances you should be taking the MEC boys out to dinner. They made lemonade out of the lemons. He happy and stop defending yourself. Anyone who doesn't get this hasn't been around for long enough to see how the airline industry really works.

I agree....

 

[cheapgreek]

When I came to PDT in 2002, we had over 60 frames and that was before the merger with Allegheny. I heard many times over the years that PDT was actively looking for more Dash's but none ever came on line. 8 Dash-8-200's left along with 1 300, tail 342. Two more 100's gone this year, I think 911,912.
The timed out frames are being scavenged for parts and how long before one of the maintenance bases is closed, ROA,MDT,or SBY?
I know HHH,which is a good profitable station cannot be serviced with anything other than a Dash-8, and I don't know what other airports are in the same situation.
Some really nice people at PDT and it will be sad to see them without a job in the coming years.

 

[WSurf]

When I came to PDT in 2002, we had over 60 frames and that was before the merger with Allegheny. I heard many times over the years that PDT was actively looking for more Dash's but none ever came on line. 8 Dash-8-200's left along with 1 300, tail 342. Two more 100's gone this year, I think 911,912.
The timed out frames are being scavenged for parts and how long before one of the maintenance bases is closed, ROA,MDT,or SBY?
I know HHH,which is a good profitable station cannot be serviced with anything other than a Dash-8, and I don't know what other airports are in the same situation.
Some really nice people at PDT and it will be sad to see them without a job in the coming years.

This new agreement secures jobs for pilots. As for PDT ground handling I don't see much changing.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Taking concessions in any area of a contract for a flow or preferential interview is disgusting. It's pathetic that regional pilots feel like they have to negotiate for their jobs instead of earn them like everyone else. Negotiating for a job at another company devalues our profession.

 

[Kaman]

Taking concessions in any area of a contract for a flow or preferential interview is disgusting. It's pathetic that regional pilots feel like they have to negotiate for their jobs instead of earn them like everyone else. Negotiating for a job at another company devalues our profession.

I don't think your analysis fits with the situation here at Piedmont. These good folks here work very hard with old equipment, and have "held the line" for a number of years now. A compromise in order to secure the future of the Piedmont pilot group isn't as disgusting as the deal that was brokered at Pinnacle. We were coerced, lied to and then further screwed over by the Delta MEC that offered zero lifelines to our pilot group. Instead, they negotiated a contract that would bring the 717s to Delta at the cost of other ALPA pilot group's jobs.
Your beef should be with ALPA national and not with Piedmont's MEC. ALPA structured this "union" into individual collective bargaining units that met the very specific needs of each pilot group. Sorry, that you don't like the rules anymore than I do, but until ALPA national decides to stop "buttering the bread" of their big league players that pay the most dues, nothing is going to change. Good for Piedmont if they are able to negotiate a contract amendment that secures jobs, gives a pathway to a better job and as a by-product attracts the best&brightest applicants to fly for them.

 

[hockeypilot44]

I don't think your analysis fits with the situation here at Piedmont. These good folks here work very hard with old equipment, and have "held the line" for a number of years now. A compromise in order to secure the future of the Piedmont pilot group isn't as disgusting as the deal that was brokered at Pinnacle. We were coerced, lied to and then further screwed over by the Delta MEC that offered zero lifelines to our pilot group. Instead, they negotiated a contract that would bring the 717s to Delta at the cost of other ALPA pilot group's jobs.
Your beef should be with ALPA national and not with Piedmont's MEC. ALPA structured this "union" into individual collective bargaining units that met the very specific needs of each pilot group. Sorry, that you don't like the rules anymore than I do, but until ALPA national decides to stop "buttering the bread" of their big league players that pay the most dues, nothing is going to change. Good for Piedmont if they are able to negotiate a contract amendment that secures jobs, gives a pathway to a better job and as a by-product attracts the best&brightest applicants to fly for them.

These companies are using these flows to attract pilots instead of using compensation. It is disgusting. I stand by my statement. I don't like it at Endeavor, PSA, or any other airline. It artificially holds down our pay and our worth.

 

[J.Otto]

These companies are using these flows to attract pilots instead of using compensation. It is disgusting. I stand by my statement. I don't like it at Endeavor, PSA, or any other airline. It artificially holds down our pay and our worth.

This is the real chicken dinner winner.... served via carrot and stick. Flow... what a mesmerizing term to entice would-be applicants. A pilot job has in essence, become a classic pyramid scheme.

 

[WSurf]

This is the real chicken dinner winner.... served via carrot and stick. Flow... what a mesmerizing term to entice would-be applicants. A pilot job has in essence, become a classic pyramid scheme.

Flow is being used the same way the RJ's were dangled over the pilots heads. Remember those days?? You had Pilot Groups ready to stab each other in the back to get 50 seat RJ's on there properties. And for what?? To live another day? Again I'd put the Blame on ALPA.
Piedmont's is a dying airline with nothing to fall back on. Piedmonts Flow is nothing like Endeavors or PSA's. It's a straight date of hire flow. No interview, no strings.... You just show up for class. I can tell you this if they had offered us 175's with competitive rates versus this flow thru many would have said screw those RJ's we want to go to mainline. Especially with all the retirements happening at American. We've got guys now that after there 1st year for US Airways are holding Captain on the 190's and FO on the 330 out of PHL.
Everyone on the Piedmont Property under the age of 40 has just hit the Airline Career Lotto! No more interviews. Hang out in the Dash 8 another 2 years maybe and gone to the worlds largest Airline. Who wouldn't want that just starting out there career at a Regional Airline?

The main reason for this was because nobody wanted to come her to fly a Dash 8. We didn't lose any pay. Airline keeps going like it is. No concessions but it helps man the airline. I believe attrition at Piedmont has now come to a halt. And not we shouldn't have as hard time finding people as we have.