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Piedmont to recieve a true flow

aa73

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I hope you guys the best. Not sure what's going on at ExpressJet but I hope it not as bad as flying around 25 year old Turbo Props with a pilot group that is just over 300. Piedmont has held the line for many years and it has been a punishment in many ways in trying to keep the bar high.
We watched as Mesa, PSA, TSA, CHQ, and many more airlines kept getting RJ's and the bigger payrates.
I'm sure when we vote on this TA we will give consideration to many things.

Honestly I live in Base and make pretty damn good money for the plane I fly. While our schedules have sucked the last 2 months I enjoy great vacation and can takeover 2 months out of the year off. I would like to stay at PDT. I have enjoyed my stay here, but if we are closing up operations as the planes time out then it's nice to know I can continue to work. And to work within the US Airways/American System to stay close to home.

Surf, glad to have ya and another certain mutual friend we have, welcome to the dAArk side! :beer:
 

20sx

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It's a straight date of hire flow. I'm thinking FO's will also get to flow. We already had a number of FO's get hired through the Preferential Interviewing Not sure of the numbers per month that will get to flow. Piedmont is a very senior airline so the top 20% have too much seniority and vacation to give up so I see them by passing. Plus they all have retirement and if there retirement grievence get done many will probably bail at age 60. Honestly everyone that was hired over the last year is set and people hired now might have the golden ticket for their airline career.
But still the details and language are being hammered out now. Remember we probably aren't getting EMB's so this might just be a kind way of shutting Piedmont down and making sure everyone stay employed by American.

I thought the whole point of the agreement is so you would fly the EMB's?
 

WSurf

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I thought the whole point of the agreement is so you would fly the EMB's?

Actually I think the whole point of this agreement is to keep the Dash 8's flying for the next 5-6 years. It was to the point we couldn't keep up with the people leaving. No upgrades and if we did it was only 2-3 every few months. Once FO's finished training they would apply and leave within 6-12 months. American wants to keep this cheap regional feed flying. And now they know the Airline will be staff with a solid flow to American.

I highly doubt there will ever be EMB's here at PDT.
 

WSurf

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Surf, glad to have ya and another certain mutual friend we have, welcome to the dAArk side! :beer:

hahahaha.... we'll honestly I've loved living in EWN and having a good QOL. But it will be nice to know the Dark Sides awaits us. :) Thanks
 

Kaman

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The whole idea of the TA ( IMHO ) was to have a future for the pilots on the property. There wasn't very much enthusiasm for having the 175s with either an RAH/EGL deal. Management has actually "blinked" a little bit by agreeing to a straight-flow without totally giving away the store with higher paying regional jobs. I think our negotiators did AA's good a job as they could, and our pilots have been steadfast in supporting a deal that is good for all parties. I haven't seen any details, and all I know is via the ALPA reps. But, I am hopeful our senior pilots ( ESPECIALLY the pilots over 60 ) are being given a path to keep their jobs or have some kind of a buy-out to early retirement. I don't expect the flow to be permanent though...
 

20sx

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Very interesting...good for you guys. Tired of doom and gloom....
 

hockeypilot44

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As time goes on, a legacy interview will be easier and easier to get. A disadvantage to a flow is that it can actually prevent you from getting to your dream job sooner. It hasn't seemed that way for the past 13 years, but times are changing. I strongly disagree with flows. The only pilots that benefit from flows are the lazy ones. Everyone else loses.
 

WSurf

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As time goes on, a legacy interview will be easier and easier to get. A disadvantage to a flow is that it can actually prevent you from getting to your dream job sooner. It hasn't seemed that way for the past 13 years, but times are changing. I strongly disagree with flows. The only pilots that benefit from flows are the lazy ones. Everyone else loses.

Nobody is prevented from going to other majors with this flow. And all are hiring. I've seen many of great pilots get turned down. Were they lazy? Getting all the rating to fly it's safe to say most aren't lazy. Some have become happy at there regional making 90k or more and having a good QOL.You are never guaranteed a major airline job.
All this does is allow more options.
 
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Kaman

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Would you please quantify your definition as it pertains to "lazy ones"?
 

WSurf

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Would you please quantify your definition as it pertains to "lazy ones"?

Probably someone like me. Living in base making good money not wanting to commute. Home sometimes 18-22 nights a month. Yeah I'm lazy to go to a major to commute to reserve and lose 4 vacation slots that give me almost 2.5 months totally away from job. Call me lazy :)
 

WSurf

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Honestly the only reason I like this flow is job security. PERIOD!
 

General Lee

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Probably someone like me. Living in base making good money not wanting to commute. Home sometimes 18-22 nights a month. Yeah I'm lazy to go to a major to commute to reserve and lose 4 vacation slots that give me almost 2.5 months totally away from job. Call me lazy :)

You know that the earlier you get on during a huge hiring wave, the sooner you can attain the same, except living at your current base in NC. There is virtually NO chance a Major will have a base where you live now. Maybe you want to always fly where you are now, and that is your choice. But, the rate at which the Majors are hiring now (85 a month currently at DL, and huge retirements haven't started yet), the amount of time on reserve is minimal. First year pay may be less than you make now, but 2nd is close and 3rd is probably more. You can increase pay by bidding larger planes, or stay senior on smaller ones for better QOL. And good retirement and profit sharing are two things Regional pilots rarely see. At DL you don't have to contribute a dime to your retirement, and the company will put 15% of what you made for the month into a retirement account ontop of what you made. You make $10,000 for the month? They put an additional $1500 into your account.

Profit sharing is the same. Last year it was 8.25% of everyone's individual W2. This year it is forecasted to be 15%. That is amazing. Thanks to Consolidation and bag fees, the Legacies are more stable and able to keep fares and profit sharing high. Btw, that profit sharing check ALSO has a 15% DC fund retirement contribution. Again, that is really good. A $20K profit sharing check puts an additional $3K into your retirement, and that one didn't require extra work.

So, staying at a Regional might have good QOL now, but you're missing out on a lot of other important things, and waiting to join later could really affect your QOL when you get there. The sooner the better. The Legacies will need 15,000 pilots to cover retirements alone. Getting on in the first couple years would be a good thing.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

kf4amu

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GL I agree with that sentiment, but it's all a mind game. I want out at all cost, but don't fault those that want to stay. At the top it's not a bad gig comparatively all things considered.

And lets be honest...there are very few aircraft in the industry that pilots have some sort of abnormal connection to. The Dash seems to be one of them...people will give up pay and QOL just to continue flying it. It's an awesome machine no doubt, and pilots who leave it to fly bigger "better" equipment, regularly compare qualities of their plane to the Dash. A couple months ago an ex PDT pilot told me the 757 he flies is "awesome...it's kinda like the Dash; things are happening, lots of noise, and it's just a badass plane".

At the risk of starting a "who's plane is better" argument, I think the large number of people who don't want to leave PDT is partly attributable to to the airplane. It's a ton of fun and isn't worth leaving for the increase in pay at the majors in return for flying a less fun plane.
 

WSurf

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GL I agree with that sentiment, but it's all a mind game. I want out at all cost, but don't fault those that want to stay. At the top it's not a bad gig comparatively all things considered.

And lets be honest...there are very few aircraft in the industry that pilots have some sort of abnormal connection to. The Dash seems to be one of them...people will give up pay and QOL just to continue flying it. It's an awesome machine no doubt, and pilots who leave it to fly bigger "better" equipment, regularly compare qualities of their plane to the Dash. A couple months ago an ex PDT pilot told me the 757 he flies is "awesome...it's kinda like the Dash; things are happening, lots of noise, and it's just a badass plane".

At the risk of starting a "who's plane is better" argument, I think the large number of people who don't want to leave PDT is partly attributable to to the airplane. It's a ton of fun and isn't worth leaving for the increase in pay at the majors in return for flying a less fun plane.

General you are right about the Majors. However I've had many of my friends that have been furloughed 2-3 times (Some at Delta, Some twice at US Airways and United) tell me that I was lucky to have stayed at Piedmont. The majors had such a bumpy ride for over 10 years. I understand the dust has settled and it should be fine now. We might not have killer paycheck but we do have a Defined Retirement plan and good healthcare and like Kf said we are probably flying the last true Airliner that needs to use true stick/rudder skills. Just last week had a Delta Jumpseater come up to the cockpit after we landed in GSP with a big smile telling us how much he missed flying! He meant flying a stick and rudder plane. I understand the advantage of going to a major. I know EWN won't be open much longer and when they call my flow number I'm sure I'll take it. It just won't be an exciting moment as I'd want. It's just going to training and then commuting.
Oh well atleast now I probably don't have to worry about being furloughed at a major.
 

CX880

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You know that the earlier you get on during a huge hiring wave, the sooner you can attain the same, except living at your current base in NC. There is virtually NO chance a Major will have a base where you live now. Maybe you want to always fly where you are now, and that is your choice. But, the rate at which the Majors are hiring now (85 a month currently at DL, and huge retirements haven't started yet), the amount of time on reserve is minimal. First year pay may be less than you make now, but 2nd is close and 3rd is probably more. You can increase pay by bidding larger planes, or stay senior on smaller ones for better QOL. And good retirement and profit sharing are two things Regional pilots rarely see. At DL you don't have to contribute a dime to your retirement, and the company will put 15% of what you made for the month into a retirement account ontop of what you made. You make $10,000 for the month? They put an additional $1500 into your account.

Profit sharing is the same. Last year it was 8.25% of everyone's individual W2. This year it is forecasted to be 15%. That is amazing. Thanks to Consolidation and bag fees, the Legacies are more stable and able to keep fares and profit sharing high. Btw, that profit sharing check ALSO has a 15% DC fund retirement contribution. Again, that is really good. A $20K profit sharing check puts an additional $3K into your retirement, and that one didn't require extra work.

So, staying at a Regional might have good QOL now, but you're missing out on a lot of other important things, and waiting to join later could really affect your QOL when you get there. The sooner the better. The Legacies will need 15,000 pilots to cover retirements alone. Getting on in the first couple years would be a good thing.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Wow! Brilliant info. So it's better at a major?
 

General Lee

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General you are right about the Majors. However I've had many of my friends that have been furloughed 2-3 times (Some at Delta, Some twice at US Airways and United) tell me that I was lucky to have stayed at Piedmont. The majors had such a bumpy ride for over 10 years. I understand the dust has settled and it should be fine now. We might not have killer paycheck but we do have a Defined Retirement plan and good healthcare and like Kf said we are probably flying the last true Airliner that needs to use true stick/rudder skills. Just last week had a Delta Jumpseater come up to the cockpit after we landed in GSP with a big smile telling us how much he missed flying! He meant flying a stick and rudder plane. I understand the advantage of going to a major. I know EWN won't be open much longer and when they call my flow number I'm sure I'll take it. It just won't be an exciting moment as I'd want. It's just going to training and then commuting.
Oh well atleast now I probably don't have to worry about being furloughed at a major.


I understand Surf, and the Dash does look fun to fly, and you can't beat living at your base. I'm just saying that if you had the ability to get on earlier than later (even opportunities to interview at other Legacies), then I would say do it, for better QOL sooner, and better overall seniority. A year or even a few months difference really can affect the rest of your career later on. No doubt you have enjoyed your Dash and living in EWN, which are good things. As you stated, sans another huge 9-11 like event, you are probably safe from furlough, and 15,000 pilots will retire within the next decade. Throw in Consolidation and now bag fees, and you have even more stability at the Legacies. The Regionals, on the other hand, are shrinking fast due to new hiring rules and rest rules. That is where the current instability is located. I'm glad though you will have a shot at a flow up, but just remember other legacies are out there too that you can apply to. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

General Lee

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Wow! Brilliant info. So it's better at a major?

You should probably look backwards rather than forwards. Maybe towing a banner would be a better fit for you, or traffic watch. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

WSurf

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I understand Surf, and the Dash does look fun to fly, and you can't beat living at your base. I'm just saying that if you had the ability to get on earlier than later (even opportunities to interview at other Legacies), then I would say do it, for better QOL sooner, and better overall seniority. A year or even a few months difference really can affect the rest of your career later on. No doubt you have enjoyed your Dash and living in EWN, which are good things. As you stated, sans another huge 9-11 like event, you are probably safe from furlough, and 15,000 pilots will retire within the next decade. Throw in Consolidation and now bag fees, and you have even more stability at the Legacies. The Regionals, on the other hand, are shrinking fast due to new hiring rules and rest rules. That is where the current instability is located. I'm glad though you will have a shot at a flow up, but just remember other legacies are out there too that you can apply to. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Thanks.....
 
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