Piedmont to close all Florida bases.

[dondk]

My .02

A different perspective...

At my company we "sold out" to get jets on the property, Mesa did the same years ago, and I do believe a WO has now also. While management at Mesa is a different story the real problem are us the pilots.

It is not so much as working for just food or working for a cutthroat operation as it is our own ego's. We all want to fly the BEST equipment, make the most money, have the best schedules, and have a great contract. Not one regional has the whole deal, (well maybe Air Wisc is close) and if one did EVERYONE would want to be there!

If you look at those "all jet" carriers, they by far have had the most growth, which in most cases have yielded to the ego's of the pilots.

Let's be real here... If you had a carrier who offered the same pay for a 1900, dash or a erj, do you thnk everyone would pick the 1900? Heck, the line for the ERJ would be 3-4 times the line for either of the other 2 aircraft, but the pay would be the same! Why is that? It is the pilots, not the company, we can be our own worst enemies!

JO got the people to do what HE wants by offering opportunity. Most of those guys who signed on to the contract that allows him to be a cutthroat are long gone. They got that PIC jet time and bolted. Upgrades at one time were down to 14 months to a jet, when at PDT they still were 2 1/2 years or more and other carriers who had jets were much more than Mesa's upgrade time. Many guys went to Mesa for opportunity which in our industry equates to a better senority number which equates to better opportunities at our carrier of choice. That dude who did the Mesa thing and is now at Jet Blue by shaving off a year or more is not regretting his decision.

It is a cycle that the airlines breed and our ego's encourage.

 

[Ty Webb]

Don't know the rest of the particulars, but saving $7./hr on the FO pay isn't the difference between making it profitable or not . . . . there are definitely deeper issues than that in play.

 

[LR25]

Ty is 100% correct.

My poverty earnings at PDT, which by the way is alot better than the 1900 Mesa pilot, has no bearing on the economic situation with the "Florida flying", I dont hear anyone saying anything or even posing the question of WHY PDT has't to be shutdown in the south.

Lets see, we have the oldest Dash's in the fleet operating just Florida, the airplanes have been paid off for years.

Operating costs, give me a break.

Load factors, I say again, give me a break.

And it sure aint my salary that is pushing US over the edge.

Whats the bottom line, Mainline trying to sqeeze blood from a brick.

We can go on and on about this subject, I'm done with it. Im counting the days that I am done at the regionals as well, bring on the box flying!

Good luck everybody, we all need it in this trying times.

 

[stall025]

Posted on Fri, Aug. 09, 2002

CCAir loses 6 routes to Piedmont
TED REED
Staff Writer

US Airways, in a move to strengthen its commuter operations, said
Thursday it will give subsidiary Piedmont Airlines more routes to
Charlotte.

In November, Piedmont will take over six routes operated by Charlotte-
based CCAir -- a transfer that CCAir President Carter Leake
conceded "tightens the screws" on his struggling airline.

Eventually, Piedmont is expected to take over more Charlotte routes
from other carriers, as US Airways increases the number of small,
regional jets that it operates. Under a contract approved Thursday by
its pilots, US Airways will be able to fly 465 small jets, up from
70. Several small carriers, operating collectively as US Airways
Express, fly about 200 of US Airways' 500 daily Charlotte departures.

Salisbury, Md.-based Piedmont employs 2,400 people, operating a
sprawling system between Maine and Florida. As it moves into
Charlotte, Piedmont will pull out of Florida, giving its routes to
Phoenix-based Mesa Air Group, which owns CCAir.

"The time has come for us to concentrate on more hub flying to
support US Airways with connecting passengers through Charlotte,"
said Piedmont President John Leonard, in a letter to employees.

Leonard said Piedmont has done poorly in Florida -- the market is
dominated by low-fare, leisure flying -- and that its assets "will be
more profitably employed" in Charlotte.

The change indicates that US Airways is shoring up its regional
operation, said David Field, Americas editor for Airline Business
magazine. "It shows that (president) David Siegel will focus on the
regional jets and the feeder airlines," Field said.

He added that Mesa can increase its Florida routes and might make
money where higher-cost Piedmont couldn't.

The switch is a blow to CCAir, which is locked in a battle with the
Air Line Pilots Association. In April, CCAir pilots approved a new
contract, endorsed by ALPA, which allows them to fly small jets. But
national ALPA leaders have since refused to sign the contract, saying
it contains too many concessions.

The future of CCAir, which only flies turboprop planes, now depends
on the outcome of a suit filed against ALPA by CCAir pilots, said
Leake. "If the federal court does not force ALPA to sign a contract
supported by 72 percent of our pilots, we will not be in the running
for new regional jet flying, and we will cease operations

 

[stb]

Florida Flying??....

Who did those routes before PDT, Mesa, CCAir etc. flew them?
CLT-GNV,TLH and the MIA to TPA,GNV,TLH,MCO,JAX,DAB,RSW,SRQ,PNS,MLB

A hint: It was called the Florida Shuttle flown with BAE-146's.
back in the early 90's.

The true blood bath will be when U merges the WO lists for MidAtlantic.

 

[ChinaClipper]

STB is correct.....

Lots of factual history doesn't seem to enter into th discussion of who is the latest piriah in the ranks. I remember lots of F28's flying around FL in the late 80's. About the time many of these "experts" were loading up their first pair of Pampers. Everytime we go after each other for the sins of management, the quest to get better wages, for all, suffers. Mesa is trying to thwart the most blatent attack on organized labor since Lorenzo, and the implications will be felt indusrty-wide. Instead of getting maximum support from the Wholly-owneds, we get a a few too many pilots sniping at us all this from a WO'd who is currently UNDERBIDDING Mesa's currents rate's. It seems that those who label a group the "whores" of the industry one day, are out shaking their a$$es on the street corner the next. Hang together or we will all hang separatley!!!!

 

[BoredToDeath]

**Instead of getting maximum support from the Wholly-owneds, we get a a few too many pilots sniping at us all this from a WO'd who is currently UNDERBIDDING Mesa's currents rate's.**

Dude,

You are SoooooFunny. Do you really expect to get support from people who will throw the biggest party in history when the contracting of US Airways Group Flying is stopped. Get a GRIP!

And for your Underbidding Remark. If not for the likes of MESA and the rest, this would have never happened.

All FOUR, thats right, FOUR WO'd( ML, PDT, ALG, and PSA) should have been merged a long time ago with ALL group flying being done on ONE LIST.

 

[GUNRUNNER22]

Huh?

Sounds to me like "China Clipper" has been lighting up the crack pipe this evening. Your post only reaffirms your utter ignorance not that of the Mesa pilot group. I know most of you are just working for a living like the rest of us.
Undercutting? Who is undercutting who? You lads are the biggest group of sellouts this industry has ever seen.
We have been given a CRAP T/A ! I would rather not speculate how the pilot group will vote on it, but it aint gonna' be pretty! Either way we are hosed! We have noone to blame but our mainline brothers for bending us over the log for sooooo many years and putting the entire company at a SIGNIFICANT DISADVANTAGE by not allowing the company to utilize (they are called) RJ's. I'm just glad to see that you boys and girls finally realized that you are nothing but a REGIONAL airline. How y'all like the right seat again?
Also the blame lies right in the lap of Johnny Quest and Hodji. When those clowns were running the show, money was pee peed away like it was going out of print.
I better stop there, I need to take my blood pressure and grab a cold one... or two... or six!

GUNRUNNER 22

 

[ChinaClipper]

Delusion as a natural state...

Geez, The sky really is blue gunrunner, trust me... Mesa has NEVER taken concessions to get ANYTHING! Sellouts? You mean like TAKING concessions like some PSA pilots are negotiating? To get jets? Oh, THAT! I don't know how else to say it but maybe you and B1900D FO should get married...I repeat, Mesa pilots have NEVER taken concessions to get jets. Show it in print or shut up! It never happened... If I read PSA's hotline correctly, PSA is negotiating CONCESSIONS to get jets. BELOW OUR SIX YEAR OLD RATES!!!! That, I guess, makes you what Mesa has been wrongly accused of. Say what you want hotshot, but you remind me of Johnny Orenstien and his BS. Just tell the lie enough and some will keep beliving it, maybe to console your own givebacks while we fight to get things up. The only ones who belive that BS is a a way of life, are you, a few of what is otherwise a good pilot group, and Hillary Clinton.

 

[stb]

So let me get this straight....

If Mesa comes in and "Undercuts" the flying from the WO's they are whoring themselves out to management.

Then what is called when the WO's take mainline flying?

 

[BoredToDeath]

**You mean like TAKING concessions like some PSA pilots are negotiating?**

You need to get your facts straight MESA TRASH before talking such garbage. PSA PILOTS are not taking concessions to fly jets. Group Mgnt has told us we need to take concessions like ML to even be considered to stay operational. Gee why would we need to get our cost down since we're already the lowest paid of the WO'd and still one of the most profitable. Because your company and others like it operate on a FEE FOR DEPARTURE basis. That means no matter what F*&king contract you guys operate under you'll always be cheaper.

Contract Carriers have put the WO'd in a position that there will likely not be a way out of. Our MEC is acting to try and save our Jobs and keep the flying within GROUP! Though things would have been better if PDT, ALG, and PSA had worked together on this, our MEC has chosen to do things the hard way in the opinion of most of the PSA pilot group.

The current contract was forced upon the PSA pilot group WITHOUT a VOTE, JETS 4 JOBS was forced upon the pilot group WITHOUT a VOTE. So when you talk of PSA pilots as being whores Watch YOUR F@#KING MOUTH! There is not one Whore in this group!

As far as the jet rates, well they do suck and quess what, the pilot group did'nt get to vote on those either. The one thing we do get to vote on are the other concessions being ask of us by Group, and those will get shot down before the road shows begin.

**The only ones who belive that BS is a a way of life, are you, a few of what is otherwise a good pilot group, and Hillary Clinton.**

If you belive there is one pilot who honestly feels for you and the rest of the contract carriers, you head is further up your A%S than I thought.

 

[BoredToDeath]

**If Mesa comes in and "Undercuts" the flying from the WO's they are whoring themselves out to management.

Then what is called when the WO's take mainline flying?**

stb,

No matter how people look at it, the only difference between ML, PDT, ALG, and PSA is the size of the plane and the paycheck. US Aiways Group owns all of these entities. Group flying is group flying. The ML route structure as crappy as it is overlaps all the express flying that the WO'd have done to try and feed the ML. Yes some ML routes have been turned over to express because it was not profitable to do with say a 73. But keep in mind these were not long haul routes that ML should have been doing in the first place. Further more the routes you talk about that are being flown by express are being flown with RJs. No WO Express Carrier has RJs. So guess where they are. Thats right Contract Carriers.

Reguardless of which WO does the flying the profits stay within GROUP. The US Airways Group is in direct control of the WO (ML, PDT, ALG, and PSA) and neither of them as individuals have control over who gets what. None of us what to see ML flying decreased, cause all that means is we'll be flying small planes for a longer time.

ML, PDT, ALG, and PSA should have been merged under ONE list long ago and all the flying kept in house, without contract flying, then none of this would even be going on.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Bored to stupidity

You are a true professional, and a "concession to stay operational" is a sell out to all and by YOUR OWN previous definition, "whoring" I hope that yoiu enjoy your new rates BELOW our 6 year old ones. Pride before th fall....Blame your management not contract pilots that have no control were they fly, you sound like a beaten wife looking for love......

 

[BoredToDeath]

**You are a true professional, and a "concession to stay operational" is a sell out to all and by YOUR OWN previous definition, "whoring" I hope that yoiu enjoy your new rates BELOW our 6 year old ones. **

OK China Geek,

Your right I am a "Professional". And like a true Jackass you keep insisting that this pilot group is taking concessions to continue to stay alive, but if you would pull your MESA Head out of your MESA ASS and re-read my post, you'll find the parts about us not getting a vote on certain issues and how the upcoming TA on concessions will most likely NOT PASS without some help from GOD. And since the ML group just passed a "Concessional TA" did they now also just sell out the industry. I think not.

Show me your 6year old jet rates for aircraft with up to 37 seats and then for up to 50 and then I can compare. Better yet why not print your whole dame contract then we can all have a good laugh. Pay is not the only thing in a contract and I understand the WO have quite a lot more goodies than you. But I could be wrong since I've never seen yours. Do you have to go through AEPS to get permission to print it?

One more thing. You know I've never come on here and blamed the pilots directly like you keep saying, I've always refered to "contract carriers" NOT "contract pilots". The problem I have is US Airways Group Flying is being "Contracted out" and it needs to stop.

I understand why you keep replying to me and the stance you are taking. Its because you know Nobody wants you and the other "Contract Carriers" Here. You don't belong and I think soon we will see the contracting of Group flying put to an end. I'm sorry that affects your way of life. Oh who am I kidding, I don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** how it affects you.

CeeYaa

 

[rightrudder]

The WO pilots are victims of U management as well as the U MEC. It is time to stop blaming Mesa and other contract carriers for your misfortune. You guys are in a very bad position, and I feel for you. But the contract carrier guys work for a company, and have no control over what flying their management takes on. Yes, it would make us all feel rosy if they were paid more, but you own management is the issue. Your management chose to give the flying to these other guys. That way they don't have to expend capital that they don't have buying aircraft for you to fly.

The mailine pilots crap on the wo carriers, the wo carrier crap on the contract carriers, and so on, and so on.

This is just what management wants, to have you fight amongst yourselves rather than place blame squarely upon where it should be, management. And the economy.