Piedmont to close all Florida bases.

[ChinaClipper]

STB is correct.....

Lots of factual history doesn't seem to enter into th discussion of who is the latest piriah in the ranks. I remember lots of F28's flying around FL in the late 80's. About the time many of these "experts" were loading up their first pair of Pampers. Everytime we go after each other for the sins of management, the quest to get better wages, for all, suffers. Mesa is trying to thwart the most blatent attack on organized labor since Lorenzo, and the implications will be felt indusrty-wide. Instead of getting maximum support from the Wholly-owneds, we get a a few too many pilots sniping at us all this from a WO'd who is currently UNDERBIDDING Mesa's currents rate's. It seems that those who label a group the "whores" of the industry one day, are out shaking their a$$es on the street corner the next. Hang together or we will all hang separatley!!!!

 

[BoredToDeath]

**Instead of getting maximum support from the Wholly-owneds, we get a a few too many pilots sniping at us all this from a WO'd who is currently UNDERBIDDING Mesa's currents rate's.**

Dude,

You are SoooooFunny. Do you really expect to get support from people who will throw the biggest party in history when the contracting of US Airways Group Flying is stopped. Get a GRIP!

And for your Underbidding Remark. If not for the likes of MESA and the rest, this would have never happened.

All FOUR, thats right, FOUR WO'd( ML, PDT, ALG, and PSA) should have been merged a long time ago with ALL group flying being done on ONE LIST.

 

[GUNRUNNER22]

Huh?

Sounds to me like "China Clipper" has been lighting up the crack pipe this evening. Your post only reaffirms your utter ignorance not that of the Mesa pilot group. I know most of you are just working for a living like the rest of us.
Undercutting? Who is undercutting who? You lads are the biggest group of sellouts this industry has ever seen.
We have been given a CRAP T/A ! I would rather not speculate how the pilot group will vote on it, but it aint gonna' be pretty! Either way we are hosed! We have noone to blame but our mainline brothers for bending us over the log for sooooo many years and putting the entire company at a SIGNIFICANT DISADVANTAGE by not allowing the company to utilize (they are called) RJ's. I'm just glad to see that you boys and girls finally realized that you are nothing but a REGIONAL airline. How y'all like the right seat again?
Also the blame lies right in the lap of Johnny Quest and Hodji. When those clowns were running the show, money was pee peed away like it was going out of print.
I better stop there, I need to take my blood pressure and grab a cold one... or two... or six!

GUNRUNNER 22

 

[ChinaClipper]

Delusion as a natural state...

Geez, The sky really is blue gunrunner, trust me... Mesa has NEVER taken concessions to get ANYTHING! Sellouts? You mean like TAKING concessions like some PSA pilots are negotiating? To get jets? Oh, THAT! I don't know how else to say it but maybe you and B1900D FO should get married...I repeat, Mesa pilots have NEVER taken concessions to get jets. Show it in print or shut up! It never happened... If I read PSA's hotline correctly, PSA is negotiating CONCESSIONS to get jets. BELOW OUR SIX YEAR OLD RATES!!!! That, I guess, makes you what Mesa has been wrongly accused of. Say what you want hotshot, but you remind me of Johnny Orenstien and his BS. Just tell the lie enough and some will keep beliving it, maybe to console your own givebacks while we fight to get things up. The only ones who belive that BS is a a way of life, are you, a few of what is otherwise a good pilot group, and Hillary Clinton.

 

[stb]

So let me get this straight....

If Mesa comes in and "Undercuts" the flying from the WO's they are whoring themselves out to management.

Then what is called when the WO's take mainline flying?

 

[BoredToDeath]

**You mean like TAKING concessions like some PSA pilots are negotiating?**

You need to get your facts straight MESA TRASH before talking such garbage. PSA PILOTS are not taking concessions to fly jets. Group Mgnt has told us we need to take concessions like ML to even be considered to stay operational. Gee why would we need to get our cost down since we're already the lowest paid of the WO'd and still one of the most profitable. Because your company and others like it operate on a FEE FOR DEPARTURE basis. That means no matter what F*&king contract you guys operate under you'll always be cheaper.

Contract Carriers have put the WO'd in a position that there will likely not be a way out of. Our MEC is acting to try and save our Jobs and keep the flying within GROUP! Though things would have been better if PDT, ALG, and PSA had worked together on this, our MEC has chosen to do things the hard way in the opinion of most of the PSA pilot group.

The current contract was forced upon the PSA pilot group WITHOUT a VOTE, JETS 4 JOBS was forced upon the pilot group WITHOUT a VOTE. So when you talk of PSA pilots as being whores Watch YOUR F@#KING MOUTH! There is not one Whore in this group!

As far as the jet rates, well they do suck and quess what, the pilot group did'nt get to vote on those either. The one thing we do get to vote on are the other concessions being ask of us by Group, and those will get shot down before the road shows begin.

**The only ones who belive that BS is a a way of life, are you, a few of what is otherwise a good pilot group, and Hillary Clinton.**

If you belive there is one pilot who honestly feels for you and the rest of the contract carriers, you head is further up your A%S than I thought.

 

[BoredToDeath]

**If Mesa comes in and "Undercuts" the flying from the WO's they are whoring themselves out to management.

Then what is called when the WO's take mainline flying?**

stb,

No matter how people look at it, the only difference between ML, PDT, ALG, and PSA is the size of the plane and the paycheck. US Aiways Group owns all of these entities. Group flying is group flying. The ML route structure as crappy as it is overlaps all the express flying that the WO'd have done to try and feed the ML. Yes some ML routes have been turned over to express because it was not profitable to do with say a 73. But keep in mind these were not long haul routes that ML should have been doing in the first place. Further more the routes you talk about that are being flown by express are being flown with RJs. No WO Express Carrier has RJs. So guess where they are. Thats right Contract Carriers.

Reguardless of which WO does the flying the profits stay within GROUP. The US Airways Group is in direct control of the WO (ML, PDT, ALG, and PSA) and neither of them as individuals have control over who gets what. None of us what to see ML flying decreased, cause all that means is we'll be flying small planes for a longer time.

ML, PDT, ALG, and PSA should have been merged under ONE list long ago and all the flying kept in house, without contract flying, then none of this would even be going on.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Bored to stupidity

You are a true professional, and a "concession to stay operational" is a sell out to all and by YOUR OWN previous definition, "whoring" I hope that yoiu enjoy your new rates BELOW our 6 year old ones. Pride before th fall....Blame your management not contract pilots that have no control were they fly, you sound like a beaten wife looking for love......

 

[BoredToDeath]

**You are a true professional, and a "concession to stay operational" is a sell out to all and by YOUR OWN previous definition, "whoring" I hope that yoiu enjoy your new rates BELOW our 6 year old ones. **

OK China Geek,

Your right I am a "Professional". And like a true Jackass you keep insisting that this pilot group is taking concessions to continue to stay alive, but if you would pull your MESA Head out of your MESA ASS and re-read my post, you'll find the parts about us not getting a vote on certain issues and how the upcoming TA on concessions will most likely NOT PASS without some help from GOD. And since the ML group just passed a "Concessional TA" did they now also just sell out the industry. I think not.

Show me your 6year old jet rates for aircraft with up to 37 seats and then for up to 50 and then I can compare. Better yet why not print your whole dame contract then we can all have a good laugh. Pay is not the only thing in a contract and I understand the WO have quite a lot more goodies than you. But I could be wrong since I've never seen yours. Do you have to go through AEPS to get permission to print it?

One more thing. You know I've never come on here and blamed the pilots directly like you keep saying, I've always refered to "contract carriers" NOT "contract pilots". The problem I have is US Airways Group Flying is being "Contracted out" and it needs to stop.

I understand why you keep replying to me and the stance you are taking. Its because you know Nobody wants you and the other "Contract Carriers" Here. You don't belong and I think soon we will see the contracting of Group flying put to an end. I'm sorry that affects your way of life. Oh who am I kidding, I don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** how it affects you.

CeeYaa

 

[rightrudder]

The WO pilots are victims of U management as well as the U MEC. It is time to stop blaming Mesa and other contract carriers for your misfortune. You guys are in a very bad position, and I feel for you. But the contract carrier guys work for a company, and have no control over what flying their management takes on. Yes, it would make us all feel rosy if they were paid more, but you own management is the issue. Your management chose to give the flying to these other guys. That way they don't have to expend capital that they don't have buying aircraft for you to fly.

The mailine pilots crap on the wo carriers, the wo carrier crap on the contract carriers, and so on, and so on.

This is just what management wants, to have you fight amongst yourselves rather than place blame squarely upon where it should be, management. And the economy.

 

[Beantown]

Boredtodeath,

You need to wake up!

"Its because you know Nobody wants you and the other "Contract Carriers" Here. You don't belong and I think soon we will see the contracting of Group flying put to an end."

1. "Nobody wants you" U group wants the contract carriers.

2. Contract carriers are here to stay at U and at all carriers. This is a business, and it makes sense to diversify. (see Delta/Comar/ASA/Skywest) This will be the way of the future. Never will all the flying be done under one express group at U so wake up. There is no incentive for U to do so. It suscks, but it is life, deal with it and move on.

3. Is your MEC (at PSA) a pilot? If so he is a WHORE (by your defination). Who's fault is it you don't have voting rights? You voted in the MEC right? If you don't like what he is doing, replace him! Stop acting tough while you cave in and sellout PDT and ALG.

4. Mesa's contract is 6 years old and is in negotiations. Very soon, a Mesa pilot will ask you to post your contract so we can all have a laugh. Plus I have seen PSA's contract and as is now (before concessions) it sucks bad. I don't know how you guys think you have the right to make fun of anyone. The fact that you have never even seen the Mesa contract shows what an a** you are. Shooting off your mouth without even knowing the facts. Typical! -Bean

 

[BoredToDeath]

Oh how cute, China Geek has a friend!

Welcome to the party BeanTool,

You are soo mistaken dude. Look at where Big Dave came from. If you don't think Airways will soon ressemble CO and COEX, your living with blinders on. If i'm correct there is only one or two other companys doing COEX flying, Gulfscum(aka Gulfstream International Airlines) and someone else doing I think essentional air service and thats IT!

Further more in the new TA ratified by the ML the J4J deal will merge the partisipating WO while stapling us to the MAA sen. list. Not what I really want but thats the way it is. All new aircraft WILL go to the WO and MAA. And over time you will see the end of Contract Flying.

**Is your MEC (at PSA) a pilot? If so he is a WHORE (by your defination). Who's fault is it you don't have voting rights? You voted in the MEC right? If you don't like what he is doing, replace him! Stop acting tough while you cave in and sellout PDT and ALG. **

You kids really like this "by your own definition" thing Uh? A few points you are right about is our MEC has acted in a way that many of us did not understand, but now that I take a look back maybe he did what he felt was right. When your told there will be no more turbo prop flying, its time to play ball. And seeing that PDT followed right behind us, well it looks to me that maybe we're on the right track. Only time will tell. The "pilots" here though have a very strong solidarity with our WO counterparts. Hopefully my brothers and sisters at ALG will also pull through. As far as replacing the MEC, well what good what it do? When crap gets signed there's no "Do Overs".

**4. Mesa's contract is 6 years old and is in negotiations. Very soon, a Mesa pilot will ask you to post your contract so we can all have a laugh. Plus I have seen PSA's contract and as is now (before concessions) it sucks bad. I don't know how you guys think you have the right to make fun of anyone. The fact that you have never even seen the Mesa contract shows what an a** you are. Shooting off your mouth without even knowing the facts. Typical! -Bean**

It sucks but I would'nt go as far as to say it "Sucks Bad". A 1 - 2 year FO can easilly make into the $30,000.00 dollar range. And considering that this has been some peoples first airline job that aint to bad. Block or Better, 100% cancellation, and each line must at least have two periods of 3 days of in row. My lines for the past 7 months have been 4 On 3 Off. Oh did I mention you get full pay with per diem and hotel covered from day one. Look to see what some others pay during training, not much.

To be honest I could care less about whatever contract Mesa does or does'nt have. And if you read my post I did admit to not seeing it. The point of this whole thing is everyone is watching what will happen with the WO's and saying we did this or we sold out. And I'm saying if US Airways Group had made US Airways Mgt. keep all the flying in house with no contract carriers maybe the WO would'nt feel like they have to take crapy contracts just to keep working. Regardless if you like it or not if there was no contracting of Group flying the WO's would NOT be in this situation.

Its funny that you mentioned the Delta thing too. Go to all those disscusions and replace Delta with US Airways, Comair and ASA with PDT, ALG, and PSA. And ACA, Skywest, and some others with MESA, CHQ, Shuttle America, Air Midwest, CC Air, TSA, and all the rest. You'll find the same thing applies.

I understand your anger guys, its not easy knowing that an entire group of pilots can't stand you. Aside from the few here and there. Let me change this cause its getting to personal, and that was not my intent. We can't stand your "companys" flying under the US Airways Express colors.

 

[CA1900]

I'm not going to dive into a US Airways debate, but since my company was brought up...

If i'm correct there is only one or two other companys doing COEX flying, Gulfscum(aka Gulfstream International Airlines) and someone else doing I think essentional {sic} air service and thats IT!

That'd be CommutAir, and aside from one city (Saranac Lake, NY), none of our flying is essential air service routes. We're doing regional service throughout the northeast, with most of our operation hubbing in Albany, NY. We also don't do Continental Express flying; we're an independent company operating as a codeshare partner with Continental Airlines, not Express. We don't deal with Express at all, unless they happen to do the ground support at a city we serve. We don't compete with them on routes, and we don't service their hubs.

Take a look at our route map if you're curious:
http://www.commutair.com/routemap.html


And unlike the other Continental affiliate you mentioned, we pay our first officers, not the other way around.

 

[Cropduster]

Hey Bored;



Just curious on your take of how to merge the seniority lists of the four WO's

 

[stb]

Good question considering...

USAirways filed for CH.11. Sunday (8-11)
Rumor has it that U will furlough 1000 more pilots.

 

[fxbat]

The web Release


tp://www.usairways.com/about/press/nw_02_0811.htm


To large to post

 

[BoredToDeath]

CA 1900,

Thanks for the info and I'm glad that your company at least pays its FOs

Cropduster,

Some say merge PDT, ALG, and PSA by Date Of Hire then staple to the ML list. Which I think would be very unfair to the many 15 plus year people at these three companys and overly fair to the most junior ML pilot.

My way would be this. For this I'll use fake dates as an example since I don't know the specifics. Lets say PSA was bought by US Airways Group on 01/01/90. This is technically the first day PSA and the employees became US Airways Group pilots. So everyone on that list on that date gets 01/01/90 as their new date of hire. A staple. Now lets say PSA only hired 100 people from 01/02/90 to Now. Those persons Date Of Hire with PSA would become their Date Of Hire with US Airways Group. The same would stand for ALG and PDT.

Sort of like going back in time and doing the staple but for only those pilots that are currently on the list TODAY. Not perfect but I think it could work, since this is what I belive should have been done in the first place. Just a thought.

stb,

Now it gets interesting. I really don't want to see anymore ML pilots on the street.

Hud,

Please read the rest of that sentence this is what it says:

(**Let me change this cause its getting to personal, and that was not my intent. We can't stand your "companys" flying under the US Airways Express colors.**)

I am pissed at your "companys" our "Mgt." not your "pilots" and I will appologize now for the name calling that I have done. It is uncalled for.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Are your meds off?

Geez, now that USAir has bitten the big #11, I wonder if contract carriers that provide cash flow for little cash investment, are still pariahs?. How ironic? The wholly-owned paychcks bing paid for by ill-gotten gain? Supported by the whoring of others? Does that make them pimps?... Seriously, the future looks bleak for ANYONE associated with USAir including my own, but I will not lash out like some simpleton with my panties in a bunch. Blame is easily placed for the enlightened. The downfall of U has had it roots deeply planted for decades. It has been no great secret that they were the gang that coulnd't shoot straight. Leaving California, the ONLY airline to shrink in the 90's and a route structure too short to spread costs around can only last so long. The laws of economics are no less unforgiving than the laws of gravity. Mismanagment leads the way, I hope the plan to turn things around gets some legs. I have been throught this stuff before(PAA family) and have been around dozens of people who were mad at the changes that we sure to come. Some still are, nearly 11 years later. From experince I can say; Adjust to the new realities, do the best you can for you and your family, maintain your dignity knowing you did your best. Its advice most will take. A few other youg and uneducated buffons will demonstraight to us all, that a law for being uninformed, rude, and ignorant about the most basic things in life, is long overdue. Peace....

 

[BoredToDeath]

**The wholly-owned paychcks bing paid for by ill-gotten gain? Supported by the whoring of others? **

In no way shape or form does Mesa pay for the Groups Paycheck. How in the world did you figure that one out.

**. A few other youg and uneducated buffons will demonstraight to us all, that a law for being uninformed, rude, and ignorant about the most basic things in life, is long overdue. Peace...**

Dude, stop letting the whole "I come from the PAA family" thing get to your head. Seriously, it makes you no smarter than me, so get of the high horse. As long as Mesa and other contract carriers continue to fly US Airways Group flying, you will always be part of problem. Not the solution. Peace to yourself!