Pet peeves from the ATC folks

[HS125]

Don't try. There is no common sense, no special procedures, nothing when it comes to CLE. CLE App. makes absolutely no sense what so ever. If more than 3 airplanes are headed for the airport at any one time, it's a major emergency.

At Hopkins, you will fly the double downwind (from CXR direct to the airport and then back out on the downwind if landing the 24s). You will fly it no faster than 170. You will have 100 mile long final. And no one will be getting an approach to a different runway. It's one or the other. They had the SOIAs and they lasted maybe 3 days.

The sooner you accept those facts, the less stress you will have in CLE. And by the way, Drew Carey, you're full of ^#%^!! CLE SUCKS!!

Glad to see CLE hasn't changed! I was flying with a Captain once who got a little perturbed with at CLE approach controller and told the controller he was the worst controller in the world and was giving all the other CLE controllers a bad name. I spit my coffee all over the windscreen.

 

[NJA Capt]

....I realize they are faster than us, etc, but those jets have a compass and a heading bug, turn them off course to go around the t-props instead of always turning us 90 degrees off course.

Sorry JohnnyP, it doesn't get better on the upper end of the green arc either. When an airliner is the slow traffic, do you think they get turned???? Nope. We get turned, or slowed to turboprop speed.

So ATC: (1)If the slowest guys get turned because they are too slow, why do the fastest ones get turned? Example: A Citation going .75 gets turned because a 737 behind is going .78 (Oooooo a whopping .03 overtake). But a C750 going .91 pulls up behind a RJ going .77, and we get the vector??????

(2) In these fuel conscience times, why are decent clearances given 200-300 miles early, or :30+ min before TOD?

 

[Hold West]

If I get cleared the JOE POOL 1 departure just one more time out of KNFW, I'm going to eject, walk to the dude at the scope, and strangle him. They deal with mil jets all the friggin time down there and still get pissed when we declare "unable." It's not a huge hassle for me, as I'm used to it. Throw a German/Italian student in there (who's trying to learn IFR nav when his English is passable at best), and it can really throw the dude a curve ball he's not ready for.

Yep, bigger'n sh*t, there's Maverick VOR/DME. Well...

My suggestion is you throw exactly what you just told me on a NASA ASRS form and send it in. Do that every time it happens. Enough of that and ASRS will send it on to the FAA, and it should show up in refresher training for us controllers. I highly recommend ASRS, not just when you think you might get dinged for something, but whenever something is FUBAR - it makes a record of the situation and if enough pilots do it, someone will take notice...

 

[Hold West]

Yah! Why can't the controller just ask us if we have the field in sight first before issuing the long approach clearance? We've stayed off the freq so you can deal with other flights. Now you're mad because we said "field in sight"?

It's very simple - you are on a vector to the localizer, ground speed 280-250 knots if I haven't slowed you up, and when the time comes to turn you on the localizer, I have to turn you now, or you are going through the localizer.

The reason I'm not asking if you have the field in sight then is that I'm likely to get some long winded reply that accomplishes nothing except shooting you through the localizer while I wait for you to unkey. It's that simple.

 

[Hold West]

Yeah..something like;

App: "Pudspanker 420 do you have the airport in sight?"
PS420: "Affirmative, we've got the airport in sight"
App: "Thank you, Pudspanker 420 Cleared visual 8 Right Contact tower 123.45"

or

App: "Pudspanker 420 do you have the airport in sight?"
PS420: "Negative, we're in and out"
App: "Very good sir, you're 6 from MYFIX, fly heading 050 maintain 4,000 until established cleared for the ILS 8 Right approach contact the tower at the marker on 123.45"
PS420: "bla bla bla"

Golly, I never thought of that.

 

[Hold West]

the disruption will always be less in the larger picture to turn the slower aircraft being overtaken.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Av8rPHX]

Someone stated earlier than "Skypest" as he put it... always uses PD... Whats wrong with that. I think PD saves on radio time more than "Discretion to 7".. instead I use "PD 7000". JMHO

 

[charter dog]

Golly, I never thought of that.

Perfect!

Hold West:

Bring some of your contoller buddies over to the board and we might get a good scrum going! Grumpy or not, thanks for your insights. This a good discussion.

My question to you:

Do you expect a "traffic in sight" or "negative contact" reply from pilots when you issue a traffic advisory to high altitude aircraft? (class A airspace) Or since visual separation cannot be applied, is a simple "junkjet 309" more appropriate since we are under positive control? Just curious.

Best,

 

[MyRadarIsOut]

Someone once told me:

As Pilots we talk to Controllers and are dealing with one personality at a time,
As a Controller, we talk to Pilots and are dealing with 50 personalities at one time.

 

[jackotron]

What's with pilots that say "I have the numbers?" No, obviously you don't or you would say which ATIS (Victor, Bravo, etc..) you have.

From the pilot-controller glossary:

Have Numbers. Used by pilots to inform ATC that they have received runway, wind, and altimeter information only.