Pet peeves from the ATC folks

[HS125]

Have you asked? Called the facility, or better yet, stopped by for a visit? I don't know where you're based, and even if I did, I wouldn't know enough about the intricacies of their airspace to comment, but just generally there may be adjacent airspace of some type to protect for - though I'd think they'd say that if it was the case. The FAA in its infinite wisdom has taken away most of the forums where we'd meet face to face, but a visit to the facility involved might answer the question.

Yep! Didn't help! Our airport has a lot of student pilot training and it's the way the local ATC wants to do it.

 

[Hold West]

(1) When they are "on the other line" and don't acknowledge you for 5 check ins. Just once I'd like to ignore them for 3 or 4 calls and then come back to them with, "sorry, I was on the other line..." :erm: We get just as busy working 2 separate radios at times and if we miss one radio call they act like we've lost separation with another aircraft.

I don't like it any better. The FAA has chosen to allow the raw number of controllers to decline over the last few yeers. What this means is that we can't man positions that we need at times. For example, in centers, the radar associate position, and in terminal facilities, a variety of coordinator positions go unstaffed. These positions exist to to take the burden of landline communnication and other clerical duries off the radar controller, and allow him to concentrate on the radar and the radio traffic. Expect this to get worse, unless they hire more bodies.

(2) When they click the mike and it sounds as if they are having someone's birthday party in the background... What are you guys doing in that dark room anyway ? Once I replied to the guy in Indy Center, "sorry could you tell the guys to stop the kegs stands going on in the background because I can't here thing you're saying...."

This one offends me professionally. I've been known to holler "everyone shut the %&$*# up" when it gets so loud in the control room that I can't hear the radios. When I was on the dark side (a supervisorimp I was known to eject crowds of nonessentials from the control room from time to time. Sorry. Do make it known to the controller when this happens, in a straight-forward, non-sarcastic manner.

 

[Hold West]

(3) Controllers working more than one frequency that get upset when you call them and step on the other guy talking on the other frequency. Like we are supposed to know what that frequency is and that we should be monitoring it.

This one pisses me off only under one circumstance: when I issue some long involved clearance that takes 20 or 30 seconds to read, and immediately when I unkey some other clown pipes up with something completely non-essential. Newsflash guys, if it takes me 20 or 30 seconds to read a clearance, it takes at least that long for the guy on the other end to read it back - and if the clearance is that involved, by God I need a good readback!

(4) Controllers who forget to give you the hand off and you fly for 10 - 15 min. before you realize that you've just gone NORDO and have to scramble to find the right center frequency.

(5) Pilots who can't be bothered to listen to ATC and have to be repeatedly called by ATC before they answer and then they read the clearance back wrong. Put down the paper, turn off the Ipod, let the FA go back in the cabin to do her job and listen up!

Ummm, I think (4) is a symptom of (5)...

 

[leardawg]

When controllers call you just as you're getting to the punchline of a joke or about to make a point in a conversation ("And then when she lifted up her skirt, he saw N1234A Contact New York Center on 123.5") and ruin the effect. This happens often enough that I'm convinced they have a secret way of listening to our conversations!

Along the same line, when you make an intermediate level-off and wait until the last second before making a power reduction, just as the controller clears you to a higher altitude (they MUST have a light that illuminates on their panel to indicate a power reduction).

 

[LJDRVR]

Along the same line, when you make an intermediate level-off and wait until the last second before making a power reduction, just as the controller clears you to a higher altitude (they MUST have a light that illuminates on their panel to indicate a power reduction).

No kidding brother! Approach controllers are the worst about this. They just sit there and watch the altitude readout on your datablock stop moving and then clear you to a higher altitude. We're pilots. We're lazy! Quit making us retard the thrust levers.

 

[LJDRVR]

I hate pilots who respond that they have the traffic on the TCAS. SFW!? The controller asked you if you have him IN SIGHT. "Got em' on the fishfinder...":nuts: simply means you're heads down and not looking. Try "negative contact, looking."

 

[mnboyev]

Pet Peeve.. I got one..Whiny high pitched voices... snarling at you ... especially after a 7 hour and 30 minute flying day... 12 hours on duty.. AArrrgh !! Up and down the east coast... Gives me a darn headache ! What kinda pain killer does ATC use ? Cripe.. . geeze.. we sure dont want to hear that crap at the flying club. LOL.. (all in good humor !)

 

[HS125]

Ummm, I think (4) is a symptom of (5)...

Usually, but not always. I've gone NORDO a couple of times because Center forgot to give the hand off (Denver Center). Confirmed it when I got to the proper frequency.

 

[Fury220]

Here are my gripes:

Center controllers who aren't listening on Uniform.

TRACON controllers who can't read my aircraft type. "/P" means "I don't have a VOR, dude"...don't get pissed when I'm "unable" your STAR/SID.

Nonstandard phraseology. Chances are, I'm not flying into your airspace every day. Keep things as standard as possible, please...and no one will get hurt.



...of course, you probably have more gripes about me than I have about you. After all, it's my student who's dorking up your frequency with multiple "say again"s and crappy clearance readbacks. That bothers both of us.

 

[DiverDriver]

Yah! Why can't the controller just ask us if we have the field in sight first before issuing the long approach clearance? We've stayed off the freq so you can deal with other flights. Now you're mad because we said "field in sight"?

And WTF is with PHL!!! I mean my gawd I have to orbit the f'n planet to get into that airport. If I'm on the BUNTS or BOJID I'm guaranteed to have to turn NE at Bunts and slow to 170 for the visual 35. WTF!! That's 20 miles north of PHL! How is it that ORD can bring you right up to 5 miles from the airport at 250 knots then slow and descend you on the downwind? NOT AT PHL!! Oh, and wtf is up with coming from Portland, ME around the planet over VCN to then be circled over the top for right downwind 26? For the love of gawd just turn us in when east of the airport or at least let us intercept 26 from the south side. Give us a lower altitude or something so we don't muck up the 27R arrivals.

Someone seirously has to be thinking they want more useless fuel burn at PHL. It is the most inefficient airport I have ever flown into and I've done many of them from west coast to east coast. It just doesn't make any sense there.

There, that's my peeve.

 

[SCT]

Question for you, Hold West.

What's the procedure for a Tower controller giving intermediate taxi questions (FBO) or taxi instructions on the roll out? I understand he/she is trying to keep traffic flowing BUT a flight crew might be a little too busy to answer questions while rolling thru 100 knts w/ a strong gusty crosswind, slippery runway, etc. Some days it might be no big deal but other times we actually are working. This has happened a couple of times to me recently.

Thanks for answering questions. ATC/ flight crews need to have more open communications like these forums. It's good for both sides to see the +/- of operations.

Thank you,
SCT

 

[shamrock]

Try "negative contact, looking."

How about "negative tally ho on the traffic"?

That's a new one I heard recently.

 

[Standby 1]

How about "negative tally ho on the traffic"?

That's a new one I heard recently.

No kidding? Now that's funny stuff, bwa ha ha ha ha! Sounds like something we'd hear out of Speedbuhhhhd.

 

[PC800]

I can't request and you can't clear me for a visual as long as the ATIS is still reporting less than 3 miles vis.

While I agree that controllers get lazy about changing the ATIS, there's nothing to keep a controller from clearing you for the visual approach if the weather's changed but the ATIS hasn't. And, unless you have ops specs or company rules that say otherwise, if you have the airport in sight, there's nothing to prevent you from requesting a visual approach, regardless of the content of the ATIS. The onus for complying with the VFR requirement is on the controller, not the pilot (AIM 5-5-11) and the weather observation is official when it's taken, not when it makes it onto the ATIS broadcast.

At ORD, when the weather changes from IFR to VFR, the runway configuration will probably change, too. During the transition period when some airplanes are still going to the old landing runways, ATIS is pretty useless for those airplanes-- the old broadcast will have the right runways but the wrong weather, but a new one would have the right weather, but the wrong runways. At such times, controllers should be providing timely and relevant information directly to pilots, rather than relying on ATIS to do it for them.

 

[Motive Flow]

Just to turn the tables here....

2 things that drives me crazy from the ATC guys...

(1) When they are "on the other line" and don't acknowledge you for 5 check ins. Just once I'd like to ignore them for 3 or 4 calls and then come back to them with, "sorry, I was on the other line..." :erm: We get just as busy working 2 separate radios at times and if we miss one radio call they act like we've lost separation with another aircraft.

(2) When they click the mike and it sounds as if they are having someone's birthday party in the background... What are you guys doing in that dark room anyway ? Once I replied to the guy in Indy Center, "sorry could you tell the guys to stop the kegs stands going on in the background because I can't here thing you're saying...."

And then there's that guy that is always whistling in the background...

 

[shamrock]

No kidding? Now that's funny stuff, bwa ha ha ha ha! Sounds like something we'd hear out of Speedbuhhhhd.

No kidding.

I heard it but it didn't really register until the guy I was flying with started laughing.

 

[threegreen]

How about shortening the ATIS at some airports. I don't need an ATIS-given NOTAM that tells me to check the NOTAMs.

 

[sleddriver71]

What's with pilots that say "I have the numbers?" No, obviously you don't or you would say which ATIS (Victor, Bravo, etc..) you have.

 

[Learsforsale]

No kidding.

I heard it but it didn't really register until the guy I was flying with started laughing.

Yeah we have a military flying club that routinely puts the general public in danger, i mean flies, and they always respond with old military jargon. Tally ho, no joy and so on. I even heard one guy ask permission to "head back to the ponderosa"

Since we are on ATC pet peeves...

Non standard ADIZ entry procedures (VFR)

I have been inbound to BWI from the east, called approach, received squawk code and proceeded toward the ADIZ boundary. It was busy and I never heard radar contact. We (my student and I) are getting closer to the ADIZ but I don't want to enter because we have not heard "radar contact" so I decided to practice steep turns while I called approach and ask to enter the ADIZ. He tells me that I don't need radar contact to enter the ADIZ, I only need a code and two way radio communication. So I proceed on in.

That same day, I take up a second student. Same as before, I call approach, get my code and make my way toward the ADIZ. About 1/2 mile out from the outer boundary the controller comes on yelling at me that I do not have radar contact and to execute a 180 immediately.

To be clear, I was just entering the ADIZ, not BWI's bravo airspace .

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Yah! Why can't the controller just ask us if we have the field in sight first before issuing the long approach clearance? We've stayed off the freq so you can deal with other flights. Now you're mad because we said "field in sight"?

And WTF is with PHL!!! I mean my gawd I have to orbit the f'n planet to get into that airport. If I'm on the BUNTS or BOJID I'm guaranteed to have to turn NE at Bunts and slow to 170 for the visual 35. WTF!! That's 20 miles north of PHL! How is it that ORD can bring you right up to 5 miles from the airport at 250 knots then slow and descend you on the downwind? NOT AT PHL!! Oh, and wtf is up with coming from Portland, ME around the planet over VCN to then be circled over the top for right downwind 26? For the love of gawd just turn us in when east of the airport or at least let us intercept 26 from the south side. Give us a lower altitude or something so we don't muck up the 27R arrivals.

Someone seirously has to be thinking they want more useless fuel burn at PHL. It is the most inefficient airport I have ever flown into and I've done many of them from west coast to east coast. It just doesn't make any sense there.

There, that's my peeve.

AMEN!
I used to think ORD was bad til I realized it was a dream compared to ATL which was a wet dream compared to PHL. That airport needs to be bulldozed into the river and then be rebuilt by a competent team of people. (make sure the TSA go in the river with the old terminal please)