Pet peeves from the ATC folks

[Hold West]

The airport that I'm based at, uses the approach control for a neighboring airport. Approach control is intent on vectoring us for the approach regardless of the weather and traffic. It could be clear and a million with no traffic within 1,000 miles and they still make us fly the approach. The controllers will ask us if we have the airport in sight and still vector us for an approach even after we confirm airport in sight.:angryfire I guess these guys are in training to go to CLE!

Have you asked? Called the facility, or better yet, stopped by for a visit? I don't know where you're based, and even if I did, I wouldn't know enough about the intricacies of their airspace to comment, but just generally there may be adjacent airspace of some type to protect for - though I'd think they'd say that if it was the case. The FAA in its infinite wisdom has taken away most of the forums where we'd meet face to face, but a visit to the facility involved might answer the question.

 

[EagleRJ]

(7) Controllers who act like you're ruining their day when you ask for verification of a takeoff clearance, TIPH, altitude change, etc. It's not that I wasn't paying attention- you were just blocked by another aircraft, my altitude chime, or crew callouts. If you just verify for me, it will save both of us a lot of paperwork and hassle.

(8) Controllers who misuse visual approaches to increase traffic flow during peak periods. Example: you are vectored perpendicular to a heavy, or Tower calls the heavy that has slowed in front of you as traffic, and when you call them in sight, your 5 miles of separation has legally vanished. Only a few facilities seem to do this regularly <cough>ATL<cough>.

(9) Pilots who change to a new frequency and begin talking immediately, blocking 3/4 of the clearance that was being given to someone. Listen, then transmit, just like you were taught when you were learning in the C-152. You're not special just because you're flying an MD-80 <cough>American<cough>.

 

[Gorilla]

10) Pilots who use non-standard phraseology, embellishments, talk reeeaaaal slowly, and most often simply rattle off a flight number instead of your full call. As in "Twenty-Two thirty-one left to 320" <cough>Eagle<cough>

 

[HS125]

But I can't clear you for a visual approach unless you report the airport in sight!

My 7110.65 says:

a. Controllers may initiate, or pilots may request, a visual approach even when an aircraft is being vectored for an instrument approach and the pilot subsequently reports:​

1. The airport or the runway in sight at airports with operating control towers.​

2. The airport in sight at airports without a control tower.​

The AIM says:

a. A visual approach is conducted on an IFR flight plan and authorizes a pilot to proceed visually and clear of clouds to the airport. The pilot must have either the airport or the preceding identified aircraft in sight.

You gotta say it, man, before I can clear you for it!

Also, unless I'm completely confident you'll get a visual on the field, I initiate vectors for an instrument approach, since it really sucks to vector you to a point where a legal instrument approach is not possible, and have you say "sorry, there's a few clouds out here, I can't see the airport"! Then I'm scrambling and you're pissed 'cause I have to vector you back out for an approach. I'm paid to hedge my bets, and I do exactly that.

Agreed, it's a two way street though. You as a controller can ask us if we have the airport in sight before you issue the approach clearance. I try to always call the airport in sight as soon as I can. Sometimes you controllers are very busy and I can't get a word in, and don't want to, because you are on a roll an I don't want to screw up your rhythm.

Also, how about updating the ATIS, the fog has burned off and it is clear with unlimited visibility. I can't request and you can't clear me for a visual as long as the ATIS is still reporting less than 3 miles vis.

 

[EagleRJ]

10) Pilots who use non-standard phraseology, embellishments, talk reeeaaaal slowly, and most often simply rattle off a flight number instead of your full call. As in "Twenty-Two thirty-one left to 320" <cough>Eagle<cough>

We got an email recently reminding us that our callsign is "Eagleflight", not "Eagle". Apparently some ATC facility complained that some pilots are shortening the callsign when things are busy, and ATC doesn't want to confuse us with the California Civil Air Patrol :laugh: .
I think I've heard more controllers say "Eagle" than I've heard the pilots say it.

 

[HS125]

Have you asked? Called the facility, or better yet, stopped by for a visit? I don't know where you're based, and even if I did, I wouldn't know enough about the intricacies of their airspace to comment, but just generally there may be adjacent airspace of some type to protect for - though I'd think they'd say that if it was the case. The FAA in its infinite wisdom has taken away most of the forums where we'd meet face to face, but a visit to the facility involved might answer the question.

Yep! Didn't help! Our airport has a lot of student pilot training and it's the way the local ATC wants to do it.

 

[Hold West]

(1) When they are "on the other line" and don't acknowledge you for 5 check ins. Just once I'd like to ignore them for 3 or 4 calls and then come back to them with, "sorry, I was on the other line..." :erm: We get just as busy working 2 separate radios at times and if we miss one radio call they act like we've lost separation with another aircraft.

I don't like it any better. The FAA has chosen to allow the raw number of controllers to decline over the last few yeers. What this means is that we can't man positions that we need at times. For example, in centers, the radar associate position, and in terminal facilities, a variety of coordinator positions go unstaffed. These positions exist to to take the burden of landline communnication and other clerical duries off the radar controller, and allow him to concentrate on the radar and the radio traffic. Expect this to get worse, unless they hire more bodies.

(2) When they click the mike and it sounds as if they are having someone's birthday party in the background... What are you guys doing in that dark room anyway ? Once I replied to the guy in Indy Center, "sorry could you tell the guys to stop the kegs stands going on in the background because I can't here thing you're saying...."

This one offends me professionally. I've been known to holler "everyone shut the %&$*# up" when it gets so loud in the control room that I can't hear the radios. When I was on the dark side (a supervisorimp I was known to eject crowds of nonessentials from the control room from time to time. Sorry. Do make it known to the controller when this happens, in a straight-forward, non-sarcastic manner.

 

[Hold West]

(3) Controllers working more than one frequency that get upset when you call them and step on the other guy talking on the other frequency. Like we are supposed to know what that frequency is and that we should be monitoring it.

This one pisses me off only under one circumstance: when I issue some long involved clearance that takes 20 or 30 seconds to read, and immediately when I unkey some other clown pipes up with something completely non-essential. Newsflash guys, if it takes me 20 or 30 seconds to read a clearance, it takes at least that long for the guy on the other end to read it back - and if the clearance is that involved, by God I need a good readback!

(4) Controllers who forget to give you the hand off and you fly for 10 - 15 min. before you realize that you've just gone NORDO and have to scramble to find the right center frequency.

(5) Pilots who can't be bothered to listen to ATC and have to be repeatedly called by ATC before they answer and then they read the clearance back wrong. Put down the paper, turn off the Ipod, let the FA go back in the cabin to do her job and listen up!

Ummm, I think (4) is a symptom of (5)...

 

[leardawg]

When controllers call you just as you're getting to the punchline of a joke or about to make a point in a conversation ("And then when she lifted up her skirt, he saw N1234A Contact New York Center on 123.5") and ruin the effect. This happens often enough that I'm convinced they have a secret way of listening to our conversations!

Along the same line, when you make an intermediate level-off and wait until the last second before making a power reduction, just as the controller clears you to a higher altitude (they MUST have a light that illuminates on their panel to indicate a power reduction).

 

[LJDRVR]

Along the same line, when you make an intermediate level-off and wait until the last second before making a power reduction, just as the controller clears you to a higher altitude (they MUST have a light that illuminates on their panel to indicate a power reduction).

No kidding brother! Approach controllers are the worst about this. They just sit there and watch the altitude readout on your datablock stop moving and then clear you to a higher altitude. We're pilots. We're lazy! Quit making us retard the thrust levers.

 

[LJDRVR]

I hate pilots who respond that they have the traffic on the TCAS. SFW!? The controller asked you if you have him IN SIGHT. "Got em' on the fishfinder...":nuts: simply means you're heads down and not looking. Try "negative contact, looking."

 

[mnboyev]

Pet Peeve.. I got one..Whiny high pitched voices... snarling at you ... especially after a 7 hour and 30 minute flying day... 12 hours on duty.. AArrrgh !! Up and down the east coast... Gives me a darn headache ! What kinda pain killer does ATC use ? Cripe.. . geeze.. we sure dont want to hear that crap at the flying club. LOL.. (all in good humor !)

 

[HS125]

Ummm, I think (4) is a symptom of (5)...

Usually, but not always. I've gone NORDO a couple of times because Center forgot to give the hand off (Denver Center). Confirmed it when I got to the proper frequency.

 

[Fury220]

Here are my gripes:

Center controllers who aren't listening on Uniform.

TRACON controllers who can't read my aircraft type. "/P" means "I don't have a VOR, dude"...don't get pissed when I'm "unable" your STAR/SID.

Nonstandard phraseology. Chances are, I'm not flying into your airspace every day. Keep things as standard as possible, please...and no one will get hurt.



...of course, you probably have more gripes about me than I have about you. After all, it's my student who's dorking up your frequency with multiple "say again"s and crappy clearance readbacks. That bothers both of us.

 

[DiverDriver]

Yah! Why can't the controller just ask us if we have the field in sight first before issuing the long approach clearance? We've stayed off the freq so you can deal with other flights. Now you're mad because we said "field in sight"?

And WTF is with PHL!!! I mean my gawd I have to orbit the f'n planet to get into that airport. If I'm on the BUNTS or BOJID I'm guaranteed to have to turn NE at Bunts and slow to 170 for the visual 35. WTF!! That's 20 miles north of PHL! How is it that ORD can bring you right up to 5 miles from the airport at 250 knots then slow and descend you on the downwind? NOT AT PHL!! Oh, and wtf is up with coming from Portland, ME around the planet over VCN to then be circled over the top for right downwind 26? For the love of gawd just turn us in when east of the airport or at least let us intercept 26 from the south side. Give us a lower altitude or something so we don't muck up the 27R arrivals.

Someone seirously has to be thinking they want more useless fuel burn at PHL. It is the most inefficient airport I have ever flown into and I've done many of them from west coast to east coast. It just doesn't make any sense there.

There, that's my peeve.