Pet peeves from the ATC folks

[NJA Capt]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Hold, Why does the "turn the slow aircraft" rule only apply when the slow aircraft is non-airline?? When the overtaking aircraft is corporate, ATC turns or delays the corp aircraft instead if the "slow" airliner. Why the double standard?

See example on pg 5 of this thread.

 

[AirBadger]

What are you filing as your aircraft type? The Eclipse is a DV20, if you are filing DA20, that's wrong. I might even bite on that one for a sec, confusing it with the Falcon 20 (FA20).

If it's a radio thing, what are you giving as your aircraft type? Diamond? Diamond Eclipse? DA20-C1 (shudder)? Curious about this. I would call it a Diamond Eclipse (Make/model) I think, but just Eclipse should get the idea across.

I've filed DA20. Definately use DV20 from now on. For the call sign, we just use Diamond. I think using Eclipse would cause more confusion, being too specific since a lot of people still refer to them as Katanas, which is close enough for me.

 

[NJA Capt]

Please don't sit up there in cruise flight playing with your WhizKid nav system until you find some obscure fix that I've never heard of, then ask to go direct there.

How about when the fix is in your own airspace? Many times we file to a fix, then we are read off a full route with radial/dist to radial/distance. No big deal there, but one day I decided to plot that mysterious PBD/PBD compared to the filed intersection. The intersection of the two radials was within 1 degree of heading and less than 1/2 mile from the filed fix. Here's your sign.......

Other times ARTCC says descend to cross 130nm south of XYZ at FLxxx, when there is a perfectly good intersection close to the requested PBD.

 

[PC800]

So that must have been you that I was talking to...

Not unless you're one of those really old and crusty captains -- I left FNT in '78 for a twenty year stint at ORD. Procedures may very well be the same now, though, I think there's still a NWS on the field at FNT.

 

[Vector4fun]

Well, I'm late to this party, but just chock full of observations. First, I can identify with everything Hold West has said!

Pilots who don't listen. Listening is more than just reading back the clearance, it's the guys who change freqs and start transmitting without ever listening to what's going on the frequency. As HW said, if I issue a clearance, I need a read back of same. That 2 second pause between the time I unkey and the recipient answers is NOT a good opportunity for you to ask for direct to ZFDAT or whaerever that dang fix is. Or, just as soon as I tell two guys to stand-by while I coordinate, not 3 seconds will go by before more folks start transmitting. Hello! Good pilots can tell a lot about what's happening by listening to what the controller is telling the other guys, if they just listen up a bit. Yes, I know there's facilities and freqs so busy you have to butt in to be heard, but way too many guys are blocking readbacks when all they had to do was listen for 10 seconds first.

Descents; I know you guys are under constand pressure to save fuel, but there's a reason why I said "Descend and maintain XX", and it often has to do with separation. I almost never say "Pilot's discretion" anymore, because I don't have time for any. Yet I often still get pilots reading back "Roger, discretion to six." You just went from #4 to #6 in line fella. And even when you do read it back correctly, I can't make you #2 because if I tried, you'd be 1500' above glideslope at the LOM. That's right fellas, some of you are getting a 20 mile final instead of 10 because you won't get that hot-rod jet down and slowed in a timely manner, so I'm not screwing up the finals by trying to shoehorn you into a 7 mile gap at 240 kts and a grand high. You're going to the end of the line. There are some Mitzi drivers I know who are good enough, I don't know you.

"With you". I hate it, didn't use to bother me much, now I get Students and Private pilots calling me out of the blue "With you". That's nice, did you want something? A transponder code? Flight following? Anything in particular?


On the flip side,

Runway changes and slam dunks. I try to be conservative here, because of stuff I hear on boards like this, but I work with controllers who use them gleefully; because nobody complains, and some guys will ask for them to get to the airport 30 sec faster. That's right, it doesn't do a damn bit of good for me to tell my peers and trainees "Try not to switch runways on them inside 15 miles" and then have three pilots the next day offer to switch runways at 6 miles to beat the King Air to the ramp. Same for the slam dunks. I just saw an Emb 170 the other night do a dam fine impression of a B727 that I didn't even think was possible in the newer jets. I didn't instigate it, they did it on their own. A non-pilot controller sees that, and some will assume every airliner can do the same.

It used to really annoy me that some pilot's obviously never even looked at a chart or DP when they filed, but then I learned that a lot of you aren't filing yourselves anymore. Still, it's mildly annoying to see a C-750 filed for FL410 on a DP which is clearly marked for aircraft AOB 11,000'...:erm: Stand by while I fix this....

Enough for now, more later.

 

[Vector4fun]

B757s, 767s, and A300s especially flying freight. I know you guys are often light on the way in, but I swear, I've got Caravans and Centurions doing S-turns to try to follow you from 10 miles in. Can't you at least do 160 kts to the freakin marker? I'm getting groundspeeds in the 100-110 kt catagory from you guys on final, right up there with the C-172SPs. :uzi:

"I think we have it in sight."
"I think you're cleared for the visual approach."



Seriously, this has been all in good fun, but there's not near enough communications anymore between pilots and controllers. Between no more FAM flights, and restrictions (now mostly gone) on Tower/Tracon visits, we never talk to each other except on the radio. There really needs to be more give-n-take. So I'm suggesting this:

Buy a controller a beer night.

 

[Kream926]

heres o few Q's that i have

when told to stand by when do some people read it back?

Ident - why do some read it back? i thought the highlight on the scope was good enough.

when at an airport that only has one taxiway leading to the full length how does callling ready in sequence gonna help the controller? all that hes gonna say back is #xxx hold short. i think that is unnessisary congestion and i dont call untill im #1. and callin ready for departure when you can see someone on short final?

then again im not a controller but is my plan B, thinking i should have made it plan A

 

[Fury220]

Yep, bigger'n sh*t, there's Maverick VOR/DME. Well...

My suggestion is you throw exactly what you just told me on a NASA ASRS form and send it in. Do that every time it happens. Enough of that and ASRS will send it on to the FAA, and it should show up in refresher training for us controllers. I highly recommend ASRS, not just when you think you might get dinged for something, but whenever something is FUBAR - it makes a record of the situation and if enough pilots do it, someone will take notice...

Good idea. I hadn't thought of that. I guess if I don't do something about it, I have very little right to complain.


This thread is one of the best I've seen here in a while.

 

[81Horse]

Before 9/11, we had a fam program where we could jumpseat with the air carriers, and that's where a lot of us got some real world experience in what you speak of. Now we are having a new generation of controllers check out who've not had that experience, and it shows.

Yep. It's a dirty shame, too.

 

[A Squared]

heres o few Q's that i have

when told to stand by when do some people read it back?

Because *some* controllers go off on pilots when they *don't* read it back. Doesn't make sense, but it happens. It was mentioned on a thread here recently.

when at an airport that only has one taxiway leading to the full length how does callling ready in sequence gonna help the controller? all that hes gonna say back is #xxx hold short. i think that is unnessisary congestion and i dont call untill im #1. and callin ready for departure when you can see someone on short final?

Because *some* controllers will ignore you till you do call ready, or peevishly ask you if you're ready, if you haven't called ready. This also has been discussed on threads here.