Perspectives on an AirTran and SWA merger

[funnyman12]

Correction............from above post

"Airtran is in the same boat, though obviously, AT THIS TIME, are a much stronger airline." Im referring to SWA being the stronger airline.....sorry

 

[waveflyer]

Funnyman- I'd expect that too.
But AT THIS TIME Swa simply brings more to air tran pilots than AT brings to Swa. In fact a huge market for organic growth would now, no longer be available in ATL. Merging w/ AT would provide our customers markets they want- and therefore would make Swa money- but it wouldn't do much for pilots atthe bottom of the Swa list.

Yet I can think of many immediate benefits to AT pilots. So immediate expectations are a factor that must be compensated for. The future will always be an unknown.

But I'll finish every one of these posts with the same mantra- if GK decides to buy AT- I will be onboard and will fight against greed on either ruining ALL our future expectations ala USAir.

 

[B6Busdriver]

I'm hearing it's now going to be a WN/B6 merger.....

 

[bravodude]

I've been at Airtran over 3 years and I'm 30. History shows that I won't know where the better airline to be at is over the course of my career. It is all speculation. Currently SWA and AT are both doing well. In 10 years (i'm still only 40 at that time) who freakin knows. Many captains I fly with were very upset that American didn't hire them in the late 90's. I'm sure if American took over Airtran in 1999 they would have sent every Airtran pilot to the street claiming "career expectations" along with other things. Well these Airtran captains are lucky they didn't go to a legacy at the time. SWA could be the #1 airline in 10 years or be another struggling airline with high costs. Airtran is in the same boat, though obviously, AT THIS TIME, are a much stronger airline. Unless Airtran has high costs, is shrinking, and losing money dont tell me that my career expectations at Airtran would be much lower than SWA in 15 years. If I recall SWA pilots were paid up to 30% less than the legacies prior to 2001. I guess if United bought SWA in 1999 they should have stapled/furloughed SWA pilots due to obvious career expectations. End of rant.....SWA pilots please dont feel the need to pull a power play on us. If a merger happens I would expect Airtran pilots to be treated with respect and understanding.

Let me ask you a question if the shoe was on the other foot and Airtran was the bigger of the two would you still say the same thing, i would guess not. Every single pilot at his or her airline is going to want whats best for them. Im sure we would love a staple at SWA but I can tell you thats not going to happen. Im sure you guys would love the samething but thats not going to happen either. Like I said everybody wants what is best for them, can you really blame a pilot group for trying to take care of their own. I would expect nothing less from the Airtran group also. In the end if this does happen Im sure we will meet somewhere in the middle and life will go on.

 

[Kharma Police]

Bou oh boy PFT again. how much do you make old man? I make more then you will ever make at Valuejet and I have been here 3 years put your diapers back on and go play in someone elses sandbox.

I know for sure I'm 12,000 dollars richer than you for not paying for my job.....

 

[texman]

Do they type fo's at Airtranny?

 

[Kharma Police]

Let me ask you a question if the shoe was on the other foot and Airtran was the bigger of the two would you still say the same thing, i would guess not. Every single pilot at his or her airline is going to want whats best for them. Im sure we would love a staple at SWA but I can tell you thats not going to happen. Im sure you guys would love the samething but thats not going to happen either. Like I said everybody wants what is best for them, can you really blame a pilot group for trying to take care of their own. I would expect nothing less from the Airtran group also. In the end if this does happen Im sure we will meet somewhere in the middle and life will go on.

Wow, so profound! Not only are you rich beyond your wildest dreams from Southwest but obviously intellectuality rich too. I mean, those hypothetical airline reversals really got me thinking.........

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I can brag about the fact the WE MADE MONEYand delta did not.

And yet DAL is still in business. hmmmmmmm. How much has the luv machine lost in the last 2 years? How about them dwinding profits. Your groups arrogance is laughable. Especially since you're the group that began the race to the bottom!

I can brag about the fact that the pilots of SWA said no to domestic scope unlike you and your friends at Delta.

LMAO! Can you also brag about how without buying your job you'd still be sucking the hose off the lav truck? Can you also brag that your pilot group was the catalyst that started the age 65 rule?
How many pilots overstaffed are you? How many downgrades have happened. Your own CEO said, no growth this year!
I hear furloughs are in the future. You got any more spare change with all that dough to buy yourself another job when you get furloughed? Spout more from your nut drainer, mr. 3 year wonder!

by the way your wife said something totaly opposite about my apandage last night.

She thought it was a pubic hair til it peed! Nice move tiny!:laugh::blush:

 

[chase]

Funnyman,

Congrats on getting hired at AAI....I suspect you will do fine over the course of your career but you are correct for all of us, we don't know until the music stops and we see where we are standing.

I believe "if" a merger was to occur the concerns you express about "career expectations" are precisely what A&M emphasizes which will have to be taken into account. In fact, our language in our new contract that addresses merger and how the union will handle it states what is the law of the land, we will abide by the intent of A&M and negotiate accordingly.

This will obviously require your folks to make the case properly but I suspect that can be made as you succinctly point out. Thanks for joining in with meaningful commentary and again congrats.

 

[bravodude]

Wow, so profound! Not only are you rich beyond your wildest dreams from Southwest but obviously intellectuality rich too. I mean, those hypothetical airline reversals really got me thinking.........

WOW Who pi$$ed in your coffee today. All I said was everyone wants what is best for them, you cant blame people for that. I think you guys should get what you would ask for and I think we should also, in the real world IF this merger would ever happen we would all get something in the middle. You want to be an a$$ go ahead, have a GREAT Day!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

WOW Who pi$$ed in your coffee today. All I said was everyone wants what is best for them, you cant blame people for that. I think you guys should get what you would ask for and I think we should also, in the real world IF this merger would ever happen we would all get something in the middle. You want to be an a$$ go ahead, have a GREAT Day!

Probably the same azzwipe that wrote this:

Bou oh boy PFT again. how much do you make old man? I make more then you will ever make at Valuejet and I have been here 3 years put your diapers back on and go play in someone elses sandbox.

 

[waveflyer]

Scope- noone cares what you think, geek

 

[Benjamin Dover]

I honestly think this is hillarious. If it were up to me, I would allow SWA into ATL via Airtran JUST TO SEE AIRTRAN PILOTS INTERMINGLE ON THE SWA PILOT SENIORITY LIST. That would make SWA pilots BOIL. They would go crazy. They think everyone who would love to be a part of that airline SHOULD BE STAPLED. Gary Kelly made them think that it would be UP TO THEM, thinking he would need SWA pilot input. That is not how it works in the M&A business normally. (unless you have something in your contract, like CAL pilots do) It is NICE to allow input from employees, but normally that doesn't happen. The SWA pilots don't think the Airtran guys are good enough, and all they want are the planes and gates. Thanks to the Bond ammendment (?), no more stapling. You can do it if everyone agrees, but the Airtran pilots won't do that. The Frontier guys almost did, but their airline at the time was in BK and not doing well at all. Airtran is doing ok, and the pilots there would want a fair shake at a SLI. That just CAN'T BE according to SWA pilots IMO. It sure would be fun to watch, especially since my friend Ty Webb would be the new ATL Chief Pilot for SWA if it happened. Only bad thing for Airtran guys---they might have to fly to West Texas, and even, gasp, LBB. Have fun guys! Love ya.


Bye Bye---General Lee

You are really a pretty funny dude General. Wasn't that long ago you were pounding your chest supporting Lee Moak and DALPA with the "Delta Pilots are not opposed to a meger, but we will be part of the group hug", or whatever that rally cry was a couple years ago. "Keep Delta my Delta" - much ALPA chest thumping, - NWA meger - much ALPA chest thumping. And many posts by you on here to NWA guys how they should be grateful for DALPA's integration proposal, Delta is so much stronger, etc.

It really was pretty funny the part of your post about it would be NICE to consider employee imput. Was that your stance when USAIR was making their run or during NWA talks? "Nice?" Right. You were banging the drum with your boy Moak and you know it.

Fire away. Your selective memory is predictable.

 

[Lear70]

Do they type fo's at Airtranny?

No.

Typical SIC thing only.

 

[texman]

No.

Typical SIC thing only.

Thanks for the reply. I paid for mine because I wanted to work for swa. It is funny how we all defend our turf on these boards. I think we could tear a new azzzzzz into the market if we merged, but hopefully we don't forget to try to keep the no furlough culture.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Plenty of bravado on here from a few AirTran guys. Your brothers on the line are not so crazy about things - like pay, all 4 day trips, trip trading sucks, won't release guys froms DH's, management-pilot relations can't get any worse - "Klaus" is the devil, etc.

You guys are fooling yourselves if you think a SLI with SWA would be just an even merge. Most of us on the line at SWA were not in favor of a Frontier staple by the way, but F9s union demands were unrealistic. We would not expect a staple or anything close to that with AirTran either, but seems many Airtan guys are failing to consider the better pay, WAY better work rules, QOL and many other benefits or our SWAPA negotiated contract that YOU would be getting if we did merge. One of your guys posted about your "new" contract coming up within 6 months. That was pretty funny actually. How long have you been negotiating? Last summer after we voted down TA1, I heard you would have a new deal before us. And...

So, I hope things go well there. But I really hope we just go into ATL on our own.

 

[ATLplt]

Ben...this place ain't gonna be around in 6 months if we don't get a new contract. Then, your company is welcomed to buy whatever virtual assets AirTran virtually owns. The line swine are sick and tired of being kicked in the balls. This WILL come to a close sooner than later.

If you wanna take on the 200 and 900 lb gorillas in ATL...then go, there's nothing stopping ya. Have fun when DAL puts a 757 5 minutes on each side of all of your departures like they do with us. Tons of money to be made here. That's why we're drawing down our ATL ops and sending more flights to BWI, MCO, and MKE. We make more money going head to head with SWA than mother D.

 

[400ADude]

Ben...this place ain't gonna be around in 6 months if we don't get a new contract. Then, your company is welcomed to buy whatever virtual assets AirTran virtually owns. The line swine are sick and tired of being kicked in the balls. This WILL come to a close sooner than later.

One can only hope.

 

[Ty Webb]

If you wanna take on the 200 and 900 lb gorillas in ATL...then go, there's nothing stopping ya. Have fun when DAL puts a 757 5 minutes on each side of all of your departures like they do with us. Tons of money to be made here. That's why we're drawing down our ATL ops and sending more flights to BWI, MCO, and MKE. We make more money going head to head with SWA than mother D.

Absolutely. It's one thing to compete against Delta, but another thing entirely to compete against Delta in their fortress hub AND a strong number two who has a lower CASM. Not smart, even if you could get the gates.

 

[PCL_128]

Good lord. This thread sure went downhill fast.=

Just imagine what it would be like if a merger was actually announced. Which is exactly why I don't think GK would ever be interested in it. Trying to combine two airlines of this size with such different seniority demographics always turns out poorly and harms the culture. He won't risk it.

 

[MILPILOT17]

Absolutely. It's one thing to compete against Delta, but another thing entirely to compete against Delta in their fortress hub AND a strong number two who has a lower CASM. Not smart, even if you could get the gates.

You are right on the mark. I'm pretty sure that's why you won't see any SWA metal in ATL today or anytime in the near future.

 

[Lear70]

So, I hope things go well there. But I really hope we just go into ATL on our own.

Well, can't disagree with you there, which I think is generally the tone of just about everyone on this thread...

 

[FlyinGuy]

Ben..gotta disagree with ya on thinking that SWA did not want a staple (F9). To really understand this we have to explore a little deeper. I personally believe that a staple (or near staple) in this instance complied with fair and equitable. All I have seen is another airline getting huge raises and bennies if they are bought by SWA. They want all the goodies and they want to keep their relative seniority (or better). They say that they are bringing different cities....well that goes both ways. To me that is not fair and equitable. There is a difference between F9 and AT. There is also a difference between the current AT and a possible AT after a good contract. Fair and equitable will be determined from a point in time. That will make a big difference if a deal ever goes down.

FWIW, I hope this all comes to nothing. I think SWA will be better off if they grow within.