Paying thousands for a slim chance to get hired at SWA??

[SELCAL checks]

I haven't looked at the numbers in years, but when I was weighing my options... the difference in first year pay at SWA and that of many legacy carriers was about the cost of a 737 type rating. Does that still hold true?

 

[Dude]

This whole thing is a matter of semantics. If you want to be more qualified to have the opportunity to interview at SWA, then you will pay for your training in the 737 initial course at your school of choice. If you would like a job as expeditiously as possible, then you may be persuaded by the marketing campaign of "pay for training". In this case you are paying more for a job than training. The cost of "training" at these places is far more expensive than most places that do not guarantee or offer employment as a first officer. If the costs were equal then I would argue that you, in fact, pay for training only. Traditional "PFT" sells experience, not training.

Stupid argument, really. If you want the job, then you will do what is required. I am very pleased with my $7377.00 investment. So far, it has given me better return than any investment I have ever had.

 

[SELCAL checks]

I'll answer my own question. Using the numbers off Airline Pilot Central, 1st year reserve FO pay on the junior equipment to compute annual pay.

American - 30,600
Continental - 28,272
Delta - 42,000
NWA - 27,000
United - 27,720
USAiways - 36,504 (not sure if I computed this one correctly)

SWA - 49,296

The next closest competitor would pay 7,296 less than SWA. So on paper, if you go interview, get the nod, buy the type and work a year at SWA... you come out even money with Delta probie's and come out ahead of every other legacy pilot.

Am I correct? Or did I just screw up my math?

 

[waveflyer]

You did.

i don't know one WN FO who made that little in their first year.

 

[328dude]

You did.

i don't know one WN FO who made that little in their first year.

I do, but he was on medical leave.

 

[Quimby]

I'll answer my own question. Using the numbers off Airline Pilot Central, 1st year reserve FO pay on the junior equipment to compute annual pay.

American - 30,600
Continental - 28,272
Delta - 42,000
NWA - 27,000
United - 27,720
USAiways - 36,504 (not sure if I computed this one correctly)

SWA - 49,296

The next closest competitor would pay 7,296 less than SWA. So on paper, if you go interview, get the nod, buy the type and work a year at SWA... you come out even money with Delta probie's and come out ahead of every other legacy pilot.

Am I correct? Or did I just screw up my math?

and to help answer your question.....

who on this list is hiring?

 

[135fr8r]

At USA 3000 it's 45,630, and they give you a PIC type in the beginning.

 

[Quimby]

Why is it that so many are ready and willing to get the 737 Type to get the interview/or START TRAINING with Southwest? Are there no principles anymore? Since when did Pay For Training become an acceptable thing? And don't fool yourselves Southwest guys, because that's exactly what this is.

I can't think of one other reputable airline that requires a Type on the aircraft to be flown on the first day of training. I'm sick and tired of Southwest guys getting a Pass on this. I certainly wasn't required to have a 757/767 Type at my airline on the first day of training; and I make a LOT more than those guys at Southwest. Paying for Training just lowers the bar for ALL OF US.

I know I'll get a lot of retribution from Southwest guys about this, but I don't care. Ego doesn't obfuscate the truth. SOMEONE HAD TO SAY IT.

If you're not RAISING the bar, you're LOWERING IT.

Don't forget: Just seven short years ago, Southwest was the red-headed stepchild of airline jobs. Their pay and benefits package SUCKED in comparison to the Legacies/Cargo.

Post 9/11, they had a very low operating cost. Duh! They didn't pay dikc compared to the legacies. To their credit, they had many brilliant corporate moves, to include fuel hedging, and the realization that if you can make the employees feel happy about dressing in Santa Claus' and elves' costumes on Christmas, they won't mind being paid sub-industry wages. (Personally, I'll take the extra millions over the lollipops and dressing like Santa Claus). Now, Southwest (among passenger airlines) has established the new "bar." Guys are cumming all over themselves to work there. Obviously guys don't remember the "bar" that was in place prior to 9/11.

Brilliant. It has worked for them. That, and the cherry picking and cannabilization of the National Airspace System.

You want my opinion? Save your money, and your pride. Save your industry. Don't prostitute yourself to Southwest. There are other reputable jobs out there that don't require you to sell yourself with Pay For Training. Don't lower the bar for yourself. Don't lower the bar for the rest of us.

You make "a LOT" more than those SWA guys.....wow, you're cool. Here's your trophy. If you're so brilliant, you wouldn't be a "worker bee" at an airline.....you'd be running your own joint or flying your own G-IV.

Why don't you give us a rundown on how picture perfect your career has been, what you've done to raise the bar, where you've worked?

Will you enlighten everyone on how SWA has "cannabalized" the National Airspace System?

Well?

 

[Captain Overs]

At the end of the day the principle is the same. We're talking about paying for your own type to get an interview. Jackass.

So I guess all the money you spent to get the private, commercial, instrument, multi-engine ticket was paying for an interview as well? You need those to work at an airline as well.

You pay for your CRJ type, I'll pay for a 737 type and we'll talk in 10 years to see which option was better.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Got my 737 type the old fashioned way.

Worked for an airline that flew them and got a few thousand hours in the seat.

Glad I saved myself the cash because, to be quite honest, I probably would've found a way to buy it if I didn't have it already.

(Even though I have not yet, nor do I intend to apply to SWA in the near future)

 

[contrail67]

If you are not confident enough to say you want to work for SWA soooo bad you will buy your type...I would not do it. If you were so confident that you wanted to work there you would not even be on this web board getting opinions about buying the type. They are the only company doing this.

Several legacys give you the PIC type in the equipment you are on...for free. And yes I know there are not any of them hiring at this time.

 

[contrail67]

So I guess all the money you spent to get the private, commercial, instrument, multi-engine ticket was paying for an interview as well? You need those to work at an airline as well.

You pay for your CRJ type, I'll pay for a 737 type and we'll talk in 10 years to see which option was better.

The point is that in General Aviation you buy your ratings to get on with other companies/opportunities....SWA is not a general aviation move. It is different getting you private to move up to the next rating and having to buy your type rating for 1 company that won't hire you without it.

 

[Whataburger]

Call it what you want. If calling it PFT makes you feel better, than by all means call it that. I PFT'ed my way thru every rating I got.
Now just looking at the 737 type. I have a friend at a regional and one at a major (he is about to get the ax) who are buying types.
The one at the regional has a couple types and tons of regional experience. How many dudes are just like him? NOW, how many unfurloughed regional pilots have gone out and bought the type? He is in a very low percentile.
The Major airline guy about to get furloughed will get the type this month. He will also most likely get the call. Which will be ahead of all the United, Cactus, Frontier, and Continental guys who are waiting to get the ax to get a paid for type rating. Different strokes for different folks. Its a $7k gamble to get a job.
If you are a go-getter, get it.

 

[The Prussian]

Got my 737 type the old fashioned way.

Worked for an airline that flew them and got a few thousand hours in the seat.

Glad I saved myself the cash because, to be quite honest, I probably would've found a way to buy it if I didn't have it already.

(Even though I have not yet, nor do I intend to apply to SWA in the near future)

Well, Fourloughed Again, what else is there to say???

 

[AC560]

It is different getting you private to move up to the next rating and having to buy your type rating for 1 company that won't hire you without it.

I know I felt the same away about my CFI, I just couldn't get a flight school to hire me without it. I told them no way am I going to PFT.

Paying for training is paying for training, the only guys getting it for free are in the military. While I think one can make an argument that paying to sit in the right seat of a commercial operation to build time is sleazy. Paying to get a type rating is no different then paying to get any other certificate or rating.

 

[Flybet3]

I know I felt the same away about my CFI, I just couldn't get a flight school to hire me without it. I told them no way am I going to PFT.

Paying for training is paying for training, the only guys getting it for free are in the military. While I think one can make an argument that paying to sit in the right seat of a commercial operation to build time is sleazy. Paying to get a type rating is no different then paying to get any other certificate or rating.

Fu*** right!

 

[Herkdrv]

I know I felt the same away about my CFI, I just couldn't get a flight school to hire me without it. I told them no way am I going to PFT.

Paying for training is paying for training, the only guys getting it for free are in the military. While I think one can make an argument that paying to sit in the right seat of a commercial operation to build time is sleazy. Paying to get a type rating is no different then paying to get any other certificate or rating.

Not true. You pay in 10 year contracts, endless deployments, and the endless stuff you have to put up with when you are in the military. Having said that I loved my time in and would not trade it for anything in the world. :beer:

 

[Quimby]

Everything decision has an opportunity cost, nothing is "free" no matter how you look at it.

carry on.