Pay raise for Hawaiian Airlines CEO

[Jim]

Wow, so much venom on this board..

No venom, just posting what I was told.

Having 2 HAL furloughs under my belt with the latest at 2.7 years and counting, I know the associated pains. I have no hard feelings towards Aloha and hope they survive. I'd rather continue the status quo of Aloha being HAL's competition then seem them go under and have every major that flies to Hawaii try and move into interisland. But at the same time, I've sacraficed a heck of a lot for HAL and it would be very "stressful" to see HAL acquire Aloha (or part of Aloha) and their pilots remain active while I remain furloughed. (Especially since I have more time on furlough at HAL than many of their junior pilots have flying at Aloha.)

And Hugh is right - in this industry situations can reverse over night. HAL is doing good for now, but will it last? Who knows what RC has up their sleeve. They are sure not telling the pilots....we've been awaiting "the big announcement" and expansion announcements for months now....

 

[Whale Rider]

You guys at HAL better not start sucking each others dicks just yet. Talk about short memories.

Very professional. Where is the penalty box police when you need them????

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Very professional. Where is the penalty box police when you need them????

"Mommy, Mommy!!! Hughey said a bad word"

 

[islandhopper]

You guys all act like this is for real! A few of us started this rumor because the two announcements were supposed to be on the same day. Other than that we really got nothing. CHILLL.

 

[Whale Rider]

Hehehehe..........thought that would get your attention Hugh Jargen!

 

[LittleFokker]

Holy crap this got nasty quick.

 

[islandhopper]

I want this debated publicly.

I understand... Maybe some more front page stories in the advertiser? I'll call our MEC and just tell them we should do everything your way. Lets all only do the things YOU WANT TO DO.

 

[Sleepyhead]

FF,

Unfortunately from what I've seen in the HP/US merger, I'm guessing that an HA/AQ merger would be very similar. One company in bankruptcy, the other growing - and yet even though it is so close to a 'buyout', management keeps calling it a merger. And since we are both ALPA, the union merger policy comes into effect. With the AA/TWA merger the American union (APA) called the shots, and the TWA ALPA union was left hanging out to dry. What that means for the HA furloughees (as well as the US furloughees) is that no furloughed pilot can replace a working pilot. If HA does 'merge' with AQ, you can bet that just about everyone at AQ and ALPA would be screaming for us furloughees to be put below everyone working at HA AND AQ. In a word, we would be screwed.

But yes, I think we need to make our voice known if this does happen., and speak as one with our union, as well as a furloughee group.

HAL

Let's not forget there are a bunch of AQ pilots currently furloughed and many more will be joining them on Sept 1.

As for "buying parts of AQ and not the debt.." I don't think that is the plan. Mr. Banmiller has stated many times his "templete". He wants to switch the -700s with 757s and then add more destinations to increase revenue.
Keep in mind he owns 5% of AQ stock and gets a big bonus when AQ exits BK. I don't see how selling off a few pieces of AQ would help him.

But then again, he aint talking to our MEC so who knows what is up his sleave.

 

[FlickerFade]

what are your career expectations now?

what were your ideas for seniority list integration back in '02 'hopper?

I don't want anything bad to happen to AQ. I hope that HAL just leaves AQ alone.

But it is possible that all AQ pilots could be put above HAL furloughed pilots. Do you think that this would be fair? What is fair if we get to the point of integration?

I have stated the two extreme scenerios (the one in the previous paragraph and stapling) I support neither. In the '02 negotiations I heard proposals that AQ's ALPA was making. I want them proposed out in the open by us who will be affected. What are your rational expectations if this deal happens?



Aloha.

 

[AQ PILOT]

Flick-

Ok, I'm gonna bite. I think it would be pretty brutal if this buyout/merger/whatever ya wanna call it were to come into play and some of our guys at Aloha hired in 2003 were put in front of your guys who are currently furloughed that were hired in what? 2000? 1999? I don't really know where your furlough line cuts. I'm a 2001 hire so ya know.

Now, that being said, you're tootin' HAL's horn like it is the end all of all airlines. Truly, I am not trying to say anything negative about HAL. I'm only pointing out what I see while having kept an extremely supportive stance for you guys during the merger talks and your ensuing bankruptcy. I have some good friends over there.

If HAL was in such great shape (again, one last reiteration, I'm not pickin' at ya here) why are there people still furloughed? Why aren't the recalls just rolling in? We've all heard your plans to expand (and I hope you do!) where are the airplanes? When you guys were going to bail us out of our financial predicament during the merger, why was it HAL who went BK right away? Why is it now that your BK is over (serious congrats) and all of a sudden we over here (managed by idjits) are making a few months worth of profits and you're turning in losses (both are probably accounting tricks)?

Dude, I feel for ya. I know what it's like to be out of work. I was furloghed for 6 months and had the merger gone thru I probably would have been furloughed even longer. That just sucks no matter how we look at it. But I got news for everyone. I don't care what you want to call it or how the seniority system breaks out, but one airline serving the State of Hawaii makes sense. Call it Hawaiian. Call it Aloha. Call it frickin' Money Makin Airlines. With the state government behind it you have a license to print money. Anyone who thinks that competition is good between AQ and HAL is a consumer. We don't work for the consumer. We want to work someone who is getting a reasonable price from that consumer. One airline is flat out the way to go...no matter how you skin it, that's how it is. There is no downside. This Dunkerly seems to have some Moxie. I hope he does. Brenneman sure as hell did and he would have made this deal a dream for all parties involved.

If this thing comes together, it could be a helluva deal... If there are people out there with that much anger that the people of AQ haven't had to suffer enough (line from a Brenneman meeting) they need to get help. No one need suffer. Let's get together, work hard, expand, OWN the Island routes...let's get rid of the UAL, DAL, CAL, NWA, and everyone else that are beating down our shores....

Wow...so that is what crown and a keyboard can do....

 

[Freight Dog]

Holy cow!!! AQ PILOT for PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!

I went to Brenneman's meeting with ALPA membership from HAL, AQ, and WP, and man... to say that I was shocked was an understatement. So much crap was thrown AQ's way... I've heard that line too "AQ people haven't suffered enough." What kind of a sick individual thinks like that? Even in the newspaper, several self-righteous assholes made themselves as well as the entire HAL pilot group look like a bunch of angry teenagers.

I really hope it doesn't pan out that way again if we make another go at it. I hope that this time the HAL employees would reign in the hotheads and continue to display the true class act that they show me every time I catch a ride with them.

 

[FlickerFade]

Aren't HAL's revenues about double of AQ's? As a privately help Co. we'll never know the exact details of AQ's finances. I think the fact that a court removed HAL's CEO, we can safely say that a CH.11 was avoidable. But HAL is flying Adam's business plan and making $$.

If there were one HI airline, I think that it could be good. There are supposedly 8 717's available. And with AQ's routes to the mainland and others, the 5-7+ 757's it would take to be worth the added aircraft type, we'd be able to make up much of the combined flying.

But AQ has 2 big things HAL wasn't burdened with: 1)a fleet of aircraft that would have to be moved on/retired and 2) a bunch of outstanding loans. HAL never has taken the loans AQ has post-9/11. And paid off all its debts whele emerging from Ch. 11.

I just don't know how all of this works. HAL isn't as strong as AA was when they bought all of TWA's debt and AA flew some TWA aircraft for at least a while.

If the HA & AQ fleets were compatible it would seem to be a no-brainer merge. With the dissimilar fleets and AQ debt it seems very sticky. However the seniority lists are joined, I think that the HAL guys feel that what each Co. brings to the table to make the combined airline (as in $'s, business plan, and aircraft type) needs to be a big consideration.

I am truly just waiting for whatever is announced.

 

[FlickerFade]

The given reason for lack of current HAL expansion, which makes a lot of sense, is the tight 767-300ER market. This is a strange time while the industry waits for the next generation aircraft.

There are very few ETOPS 763's with pratt engines that also aren't beat to s**t. Boeing doesn't want to build you a new one without a 20 year commitment and (thankfully for us, HAL doesn't want 767's for that long). A good consequence of these high fuel prices is that a 30% reduction in operating costs sure looks attractive (with the 787).

So, that is why Hawaiian isn't now expanding, yet is looking diligently. They are also not recalling because "we" signed new concessions making the airline look a bit over-staffed.

Ah, what a keyboard and too much coffee can do. You sure are silent mdanno, you've usually got a lot to say about topics like these.

Aloha.

 

[AQ PILOT]

Personally, I don't see the big difference in fleets. They are airplanes, all Boeing. How frickin' difficult can it be?

As for being privately held....dude you have no idea....there is no one over here that trusts what goes on in the 'accounting' department. I doubt there is a soul here who wouldn't rather be publicly traded like HAL. I'll wholeheartedly give you the slam-dunk-no-argument-you-win-hands-down on that one.

Still, something aint right with the mentality between our two groups. I stand firmly by the fact that if HAL and AQ were one company it would be, how you say, much mo' bettah for the company, employees, and even the consumers. Think of the savings in the business plan.....no more competition, half the advertising (oh wait, we don't advertise...disregard), one res center, the list goes on and on....

Let me ask you this fizzle. While I know you would never wish us ill will, how would you feel if AQ liquidated and disappeared and HAL doubled in size to become the only Hawaiian carrier? That would be ok wouldn't it? Again, knowing you wish us no ill will, you would love that wouldnt you? I would if the roles were reversed. It's the best case answer. Now rather than bring in a whole bunch of new pilots from all over, I'd still rather see that new company staffed with guys like you and I. I just don't see the problem....

I still think if we could severely limit competition it would allow this Company to expand like no tomorrow. The State would totally back us...

Ok, coffee wearing off....

 

[FlickerFade]

Let me ask you this fizzle. While I know you would never wish us ill will, how would you feel if AQ liquidated and disappeared and HAL doubled in size to become the only Hawaiian carrier? That would be ok wouldn't it? Again, knowing you wish us no ill will, you would love that wouldnt you? I would if the roles were reversed. It's the best case answer. Now rather than bring in a whole bunch of new pilots from all over, I'd still rather see that new company staffed with guys like you and I. I just don't see the problem....

I still think if we could severely limit competition it would allow this Company to expand like no tomorrow. The State would totally back us...

Ok, coffee wearing off....[/QUOTE]

Ok,

Yes I do think that if AQ liquidated, HAL would be morally obligated to bring on as many AQ folks as possible.

I have heard that the market for 757's is tight too, so I don't know where the aircraft for mainland expantion would come from. The type of aircraft are VERY relevant here.

There are too many rumors flying around the Islands to account for here.

Good luck everyone.