Pay raise for Hawaiian Airlines CEO

[RJP]

"It's like a pie-eating contest where the prize is a giant pie," Faris said.

Judge Faris shows a little 'down-on-the-farm' insight.

 

[Mesa Beer]

So what is the concensus among the pilot group at AQ? Have they told you guys what to expect? Hope it works out. Chapter 11's like a roller coaster ride huh?

vote for me free beer

 

[Sleepyhead]

i heard a memo went out to HAL employees that said the company needs a pay cut to compete with AQ and now Mesa.
What else did it say?

 

[Dan Roman]

deleted

 

[FlickerFade]

Having read the memo, it is enlightening to see how facts get distorted into rumors.

It didn't say that HAL needs to cut pay.


Aloha.

 

[Dan Roman]

I debated on that but it didn't have anything really secret. It was a good example of how things get twisted around. That said I'll err on the conservative side and delete it. I see the memo as doing a good job of keeping the employee's in the loop and convaying the importance of continually striving to save money when able, Fuel conservation, etc. and management is trying their utmost to be communicative. Which is a good thing.
Hawaiian has a lot of other advantages that can protect it from what's going on.
Their fleet, 40% fuel hedged, and right now they are being very well managed.
This is a hell of an industry though.

 

[mdanno808]

IMHO, I think the memo is a pretty clear indication that management will be back for concessions in the future. I certainly hope not, but it would not surprise me at all.

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm sure they always have to consider it, buy with close to $200 million in the bank, it might be a hard sale. These guys are not making any stupid moves and personally I'm glad they are so fiscally responsible. They're good at business we just need to be good at representing our best interests. Which I have a lot of faith in our current MEC.

 

[AQ PILOT]

Having read the memo, it is enlightening to see how facts get distorted into rumors.

It didn't say that HAL needs to cut pay.


Aloha.

Flicker and Dan,

You're right it doesn't say that there needs to be a cut in pay. It did say and I quote -

"Recognizing this, the overall message that we should all be taking away from the recent new is: when our competitors lower their costs, we must take the steps to match them. We all want to be able to hold onto the contracts we have in place today. To do so will require that we work hard to reduce costs, reduce waste, and reduce time away from work."

also and yes, I'm pulling midstream out of the memo on this but not to misrepresent what it means in any way...

"Their (Mesa) labor costs are very, very low. Mesa pilot and flight attendant cost are somewhere in the region of 60%-70% lower than those at HAL. Four our interisland operation, labor is by far and away our largest element of cost, so to start with this large a disadvantage for so significant a cost should have everybody's attention -- (I love this part) no matter what Aloha is saying to the press."

Guys, if you read that all is gonna be hunky dory over there, more power to you. I think Mdanno sees a possibility of what is coming. Before you go off half cocked, understand this. The more hits you take, the more hits we take at Aloha. A few years ago I thought your work rules and wages were a joke. Now I wish I had your wages. Don't get into this AQ pilots vs HAL pilots mentality. It should never be about that. What it should be about is the fact that your management and my management are both just waiting until one group get's a smaller total package (wages and bennies) as soon as one does, the other cries to their labor group and says "oh my god, we can't compete!" And the battle goes on...Da Da Da Da...How low can you go...How low can you go...

Now they throw Mesa's 60-70% lower costs at ya? Holy schneikes....talk about an opening one-liner. Believe you me, if we got a memo over here that said something to the effect of "we all want to hold onto our contracts..." the kimchee would really hit the fan...and quick...as its doing now...how ever ineffectually in my opinion.

Oh one last thing, if your Pres and Ceo is quoting anything our idiot says in the press, whats his name? Globerbunghole or something, he is really stretching to make his point. It is embarassing to see what we put out as compared to what your guy does. Your dude is a literary master comparitively!

Ok, too much coffee this morning.

 

[mdanno808]

You know what's funny (or sad maybe) is that Dunk-o-rama's bonus each year is tied to how HAL does. You can look at this in 1 of 2 ways. 1, he will strive to make Hawaiian as profitable, and successful as possible, which is great! or 2. he will do whatever he need's to to lower costs and boost the profit's in order to make his 100-200% annual bonus, and that's spooky. Glass half full, or half empty? Dan Roman hit us with some of that sunshine. Or let's all go back to the brown bag at WP thread and make fun of airlud some more.

 

[FlickerFade]

Mdanno, is that your face in your Avatar?? LOL


AQPilot, who f#$king cares?! My point was that having read the memo and seeing the immediate jump to "ooo Hawaiian pilots are in for more pay cuts" is a leap that doesn't help anyone. I even meant that all of the rumors I hear about AQ might not be true either, given this example of distortion.

HAL just got new contracts, oil is over-inflated by upwards of $40 a barrel, Mesa hasn't even moved an airplane, FlyHi doesn't even have financing, AQ isn't even restructured: guess what , this is a volatile industry, gee that's news.

You don't know, I don't know, the future will tell. After 2.5+ years of furlough, I really don't want to hear a bunch of conjecture from an EMPLOYED AQ pilot who happened to get their hands on an internal HAL memo.

 

[Dan Roman]

Flicker I don't think AQ was gloating. He makes a good point about payscales being whipsawed. Consider this. In the early 1990's when Hawaiian was hurting and our pay was at it's lowest, AQ was profitable and doing fine with higher payscales. So low pay at a competitor doesn't neccessarly mean you will be hurt. The tables have turned and we are still in a relativly good position thanks to many other factors. Just because AQ takes pay cuts it doesn't mean we have to.

It would certainly be hypocritical of us to be critical of AQ taking cuts. We did it, it worked out now I hope it works out for them. Inter-island should be HAL and AQ, NOT mesa.

Again, you can read anything into the memo, but Hawaiian has a LOT going for it right now. Fuel hedges, an excellant fleet, the 717 IS better than RJ's inter-island, even if Mesa pays crap, look at Independance Air for how well RJ's work in a low fare competitive environment and Hawaiian is now a very well run airline that has had the highest operating profit margin (9.4%, that's more than SWA) in the US airline industry for the last 2 years. With close to $200 million cash, it's way to soon to panic.
Good luck to the Aloha folks, hang in there is all you can do, I've heard what they are offering, while I'm sure it's unacceptable, things can change a lot on the negotiating table.
Danno, is airludy an easy target or what? Poor guy, I would hate to be held accountable for all the dumb things I've said over the years but he is just to ripe for taking a shot. Many he'll learn something.

 

[Jim]

The following was posted on the HAL Hangartalk board. While Mesa trying to fly inter island is a large cause for concern and definitely brings the threat of management wanting more concessions, I think this makes a good point. HALs cost are the same as Mesa's and we have years of brand loyality and name recognition within the market.

Ornstein said Banmiller's information about Mesa's cost structure is way off the mark. "Our reported cost in the last quarter was 11.1 cents based on stage length and operating environment," he said. "I appreciate him being concerned about our costs, but I assure you we wouldn't be doing this if we didn't think we'd be profitable.

According to our second quarter financials our costs were 10.45 cents. This is the latest information I could find. It at least offers comparisons for similar quarters.

Things have changed, but a likely assumption is that they changed equally for both.

 

[FlickerFade]

All,


I'm just not that worried anymore. I don't think that HAL is in bad shape or is in for any concession talk. The future will tell what the future will tell. Hawaiian is profitable and well run. That's the kind of company I want to go back to.

It doesn't mean that the MEC or the Company can stand back and not watch market forces, but they already do that well.

Aloha.

 

[AQ PILOT]

Flicker...dude, relax. Apparently you don't understand that I actually like HAL... Good guys, great airplanes, and fantastic flight attendants. I hope HAL does phenomenal in the years to come. I think I've made that abundantly clear in most of my posts. I'll probably regret saying this, but you have some serious issues. See past the personal stuff and get to the meat of the issues. If you have a rumor you want quenched about AQ, I'd be happy to find out what I can for you. Sorry I ended up with one of your internal memos. I'll say 3 Hail Mary's after I finish typing here. Seriously though, give it a rest.

Dan, good points as always. Your fuel hedging is a huge plus and no matter how Mesa spins it, they gotta come in here swinging with very little support out this way. You guys are in great shape and poised to become even better. Thanks for the good words, rest assured we'll get what we can out of this quagmire over here. If you know what they offered, you know how ugly it is!

Mdanno, we got the same thing over here right now. We are positive that whatever Banfu$ck can get out of us between now and closing of the deal is nothing more than silver lining on his eventual parachute. It's funny, we all want the company to do great, but it is so unfair when we don't get to share in it. Just these management dudes that come and go with the wind. I so call BS on it...

Now tell me where I can find this WP brownbag thread...I need some humor...

Flicker, again, relax buddy...relax ;-)

 

[mdanno808]

Any predictions on whether or not mesa shows up next year or not?

 

[Dan Roman]

Go to regionals and the thread that says Island Air and Brown bag lunch, you'll love it.

 

[AQ PILOT]

On my way to Brown bag lunch...and I say probably on Mesa...good friend flies over there and there are already preliminary TDY talks for the pilots...who knows if it will really happen....

 

[FlickerFade]

AQPilot,


I'VE GOT ISSUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????!!!!!!!!!!!

RELAX??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:wink: :wink: :biggrin:

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Now that figures. They had one reserve Captain available all day today for HNL, and one for SEA. Overstaffed by 20? Bite me.

If that isn't a case for not flying on your day off, I don't know what is. Wonder how many dudes were flying on a scheduled day off that day...

I know, dead horse....dead horse...:wink: