Pat Tillman is not a hero....

[Dizel8]

Don't let the door hit you in the @ss on the way out!

I hear OBL is looking for a few pilots!

 

[flyifrvfr]

I believe Tilman as well as all U.S. Soldiers are heros. In my opinion you don't have to be in country at war or lose your life in battle to be a hero, you need only be a U.S. Soldier. The thought that comes to the front of my mind regarding Pat Tilman is that he wanted to serve his country, but serve it quietly without fanfare. I believe that Pat Tilman wouldn't want the spotlight on him in death as he did what he could to keep a low key while serving.

 

[Swass]

airspeed,

You can't be serious, can you?

Dude you are trolling for some flame, please tell me the truth.

 

[nimtz]

I believe Tilman as well as all U.S. Soldiers are heros. In my opinion you don't have to be in country at war or lose your life in battle to be a hero, you need only be a U.S. Soldier.

I hope we can disqualify the two white trash POS that were in the photos mistreating the POW's. I won't call anyone that ignorant or stupid a hero. The military just like every group has it's bad elements. That of course does not detract from the dedication and hard work that of those who are busting the @sses everyday to do the mission they are assigned.

BTW, Rene has a real tough life from the crystalized grad school world. Keep drinking Starbucks and b!tching about the state of the world while you contemplate the apporiate abbrevation for you're next action group. This country was built on the backs of people like Pat Tillman, not snotty f*ckwads like Rene.

 

[Timebuilder]

Just had to chime in on this one. IMHO this country is headed by nothing but liars and scum. Bush sucks. I think he is a piece of sh1t and he should have been the one that was shot over there. Its his war. There is no good reason for us to be policing other people, let them figure it out on their own. We get way into too many peoples business. I don't see other countries coming over here to help us out. Tillman is no **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hero, he is a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** fool. He was nothing but a servant in some bs war on oil. Plain and simple!

I see the same irony in this post that I saw in the column we are discussing.

None of airspeed's attitude would be permitted in a country that did not have people like Pat Tillman, people who did not enter the military for benefits or as a default career choice, but instead walked away from what most of us would describe as an objectively better lifestyle in favor of providing service to us, the citizens. This is why the Tillman story is important to us. He had something else to do, something attractive, carrying celebrity and high monetary gain, and he chose instead to give himself.

Does this remind anyone of a similar sacrifice we have recently discussed? Maybe that's why this strikes a chord in people.

So, airspeed, while I see you opinion as being completely devoid of value, I must point out that you have the right to exercise that opinion because of those whom you despise.

A poignant paradox, to be sure.

 

[airspeed]

You people need to THINK!!! My rights?? First of all I have served. I did it because I wanted to fly and at first I did want to serve my country until I realized all I was serving was some despicable govt. that only cared about taking your money for every kind of tax u can think of, wiping out whole races of people, invading other countries when we should not be there, etc. For those of you who believe that we need to go invade other countries for our so called freedoms you must be kidding me right?? Let me tell u all something, I have the right, yes thats the right to do what ever the hell I want as long as I don't hurt anyone else. Remember the native americans? Were they not here first?? Yes, they were and guess what our great Uncle Sam tried to wipe em out. Just the way its always been is that we take what we want. Do you people not realize why the Middle East hates us so much?? This country sucks and don't give me that crap that I need someone else fighting for my freedoms. The govt nor anyone on this board knows what freedom is it seems. Are we really free? No, we are not. Patriot Act come to mind??

 

[Dizel8]

"This country sucks"

Well, I am sure you can find plenty of countries, that would welcome you with open arms, but you may have to be less outspoken, you know, not all countries views freedom of speech as a right.

Like I said before, and as I said to ATL2CDG, let us know when you leave and how it works out.

 

[Swass]

You people need to THINK!!! My rights?? First of all I have served. I did it because I wanted to fly and at first I did want to serve my country until I realized all I was serving was some despicable govt. that only cared about taking your money for every kind of tax u can think of, wiping out whole races of people, invading other countries when we should not be there, etc. For those of you who believe that we need to go invade other countries for our so called freedoms you must be kidding me right?? Let me tell u all something, I have the right, yes thats the right to do what ever the hell I want as long as I don't hurt anyone else. Remember the native americans? Were they not here first?? Yes, they were and guess what our great Uncle Sam tried to wipe em out. Just the way its always been is that we take what we want. Do you people not realize why the Middle East hates us so much?? This country sucks and don't give me that crap that I need someone else fighting for my freedoms. The govt nor anyone on this board knows what freedom is it seems. Are we really free? No, we are not. Patriot Act come to mind??

Wow.

 

[TonyC]

You people need to THINK!!! My rights?? First of all I have served. I did it because I wanted to fly and at first I did want to serve my country until I realized all I was serving was some despicable govt. that only cared about taking your money for every kind of tax u can think of, wiping out whole races of people, invading other countries when we should not be there, etc.

...

Let me tell u all something, I have the right, yes thats the right to do what ever the hell I want as long as I don't hurt anyone else.

...

This country sucks and don't give me that crap that I need someone else fighting for my freedoms.

Somebody PLEASE tell me this guy no longer has access to weapons so I can sleep tonight.

 

[countbat]

Dear Timebuilder,
If you are such an admirer of Tillman - God rests his poor soul - why don't you follow on his footsteps and join the service for an Iraq(k) tour. See if you like it. Check Afganistan also. Try for a change to put your money where your mouth is. Maybe....just maybe you will get lucky and get to meet Jesus on those places. I believe He is waiting for you for some time. You shouldn't make him wait. That's not nice of you. Very disrespectful.

 

[S2B]

Bomb Vieques!

 

[Timebuilder]

Dear Timebuilder,
If you are such an admirer of Tillman - God rests his poor soul - why don't you follow on his footsteps and join the service for an Iraq(k) tour. See if you like it. Check Afganistan also. Try for a change to put your money where your mouth is. Maybe....just maybe you will get lucky and get to meet Jesus on those places. I believe He is waiting for you for some time. You shouldn't make him wait. That's not nice of you. Very disrespectful.

Well, count, I suppose that I have to start by cutting you a large amount of slack, because it is obvious that you don't know me well. You've been a member here for almost two years, and you must have missed some of my posts, so I'll share this with you:

I looked into joining the reserves several years ago. With my academy background, education and experience, along with my pilot certificates, first class medical, and status as a single man, I thought it would be a shoo-in. Seems that someone in the GAO suggested a few years back that people can only enter government service up to a certain age, so that they can be vested in the pension plan by age 65. I thought age discrimination was illegal, and you would think the military would welcome someone with previous experience and a willingness to serve, but no go. I'm still thinking about pushing the issue further, because I know a lot of cranky old officers that I went to school with, and they serve just fine. In the Pentagon.

So, I will treat you with more respect than you offered me. Perhaps you will grow up a little, in time.

 

[727PAA]

Airspeed.

Some of your posts:

Anyone ever flown in Beirut Lebanon?
Got a job offer there flyinga corporate jet out of Beirut. Anyone with expieriences bad or good? Mostly worried about terrorism. Thanks.

Malaysia
Before you start blaming whole nations you need to see the whole picture. Its these radicals that screw it up for everyone else. Malaysia didn't bring anyone bombings, the Islamic Jihad did. I have lived in Malaysia and the people are a hell of a lot more friendly and caring then anywhere I have been in the states!

Air Serve
Had a job offer from the awhile ago. BE200 based in Afghanistan. At the time I couldn't do it, too many things on the homefront. Last I talked with them they had an opening coming up in Jordan in a BE200 to fly from Jordan to Iraq everyday. The pay is Very low, like 2400/mo for a BE200 Capt. I just couldn't see flying into a war zone for that kinda pay. Very nice people though. BTW- they are in Warrenton VA, no longer in CA.

So which is it. Why worry about terrorism in Beirut. I mean they are the ones that are sponsoring the Hamas terrorists in Israel

Is it our fault or not. I guess you only fly into war zones for big money..not that lousy Army pay that Pat Tillman makes.

Dude you give the Navy a bad name.
Sounds like you would like an extended stay in Malaysia..give it a shot

 

[cherokee]

With an attitude like that, I am highly suspicious this guy was ever a mil pilot at all. I find it hard to believe that a guy with those kind of attitudes would make it through the pilot screening process.

 

[NEDude]

People such as Rene need to seperate the military and those that serve from the elected leadership in Washington.

Those who serve their country, regardless of their reason, deserve to be thanked and appreciated. Those who serve in the military however are used at the discression of our elected leadership. If you have issues with our policy in Iraq, Afghanistan or anywhere else, then your issue is with the civilian elected leadership, not with those who serve in the Armed forces.

 

[airspeed]

727PAA

First of all I spent over a decade in the USN. Give the Navy a bad name give me a break. You are like a sheep. You follow the herd and are probably to afraid to voice an opinion as you feel you'll get flamed so you just pick the opinion of the day and go with it. Yes, I was worried about terroism since its been a long time since I was over there. Just to clarify something I would rather fly into a war zone to deliver food and supplies then to kill people just because some bloodthirsty govt. thinks it should be done. Not a robot like you.

 

[Timebuilder]

I would rather fly into a war zone to deliver food and supplies then to kill people just because some bloodthirsty govt. thinks it should be done. Not a robot like you.

This is a good example of someone who must resort to personal attacks instead of having a reasoned discussion based on ideas.

Things like "kill people because some bloodthirsty government" indicate that he really hates the policies of the United States. Strange coming from a decade of service in the Navy, but then again we have a presidential candidate who gave aid and comfort to the enemy in a time of war, by his actions after returning to the US. Also, one who supports this "bloodthirsty government" would be similarly impugned.

"Bloodthirsty government." Hmm. Did you ever say that about Sadaam Hussein? I wonder.

"Not a robot like you." Rather than admit that millions of Americans and other world citizens can come to an opinion of agreement with US policy, this attempts to apply a derogatory explanation of this agreement, as if supporters were somehow "programmed" to support policy. Of course, there is no evidence to support this absurd idea.

On a different note, I have spoken with the AirServe people, and offered to fly for them, too. This was a second choice to joining the reserves and flying C-130's overseas. They want the B200 experience, and I don't have that. If you do, good for you.

The people you may help with food, medicine and other NGO activities will be able to benefit from those things now because the US acted to bring freedom to them, allowing them to make a choice in their self-governance over a terrible dictator in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan. The US military folks stationed around the airports in these countries will make you far more safe than you would be otherwise.

 

[kevdog]

Pat is dead, I really don't think he cares if he is a hero or not. I think the story is overplayed and a bit annoying. People get pissed when abc wants to show pictures and name the names of the service men and women killed in iraq over its 30 minute show but it's ok to show pat every 5 minutes for days. Something seem wrong here?

 

[Timebuilder]

Pat is dead, I really don't think he cares if he is a hero or not. I think the story is overplayed and a bit annoying. People get pissed when ABC wants to show pictures and name the names of the service men and women killed in Iraq over its 30 minute show but it's ok to show pat every 5 minutes for days. Something seem wrong here?

Yes. Your apparent lack of insight.

Pat would definitely not like the publicity. He did not seek it, and he did not seek greatness. He achieved it, though, by his humble actions. Overplayed? No, just an accounting of what he did, and why he did it. We forget about our heroes soon enough. There' nothing wrong with recognizing the genuine article when one comes along.

As for Nightline, you have to look at intent. Intent is a concept near and dear to the liberal heart. Intent is far more important than actions. More important than the outcome. More important that almost anything. So, what was the intent shown by Nightline?

In 1969, Life magazine took the unusual step of showing the American public a large group of photos that were intended to sway the American public's view of the war in Vietnam, and stir antiwar sentiments. Some historians agree that it was effective in that intent. Some say it single-handedly helped to turn the tide of public opinion against the war.

Nightline intended to do the same thing as Life magazine. Despite protests to the contrary, and claims that they wanted to "honor" the soldiers, the Nightline presentation failed to have any earmarks of an intent to honor the soldiers.


When you honor someone, as we saw in Pat Tillman's funeral this week, you talk about accomplishments and willing sacrifices made by the individuals being honored. Koppel and his producers calculated just how much time was available to them, and allowed scant seconds for each soldier, most with photo and name.

A roster of soldiers, yes. An honoring of their service, no.

No mention of deeds that brought freedom to millions.

No mention of the elimination of a brutal dictator.

No mention of the fomenting of freedom in an oppressed population.

No. Honor was not the intent.

 

[kevdog]

OK, I see, so only the "cool" heroes get the needed coverage.

Pat = Millionare NFL Player = Cool

Jerome = Poor intercity kid = Not Cool

Gotcha.