Owner Speaks

[trainerjet]

Me thinks you guys are getting the wool pulled over your eyes...

For the sake of fractional pilots everywhere, I certainly hope so. Maybe another "Mr. Concorde"?

Me thinks if no one responds, he slinks away.

 

[NJAowner]

Remove blinders & think outside the box

I am real - PM me if you need info.

I think that many of you are too tied up in this union/anti-union debate. Remove your blinders. The fact is NJA listens to its owners.

Do you believe that national politicians listen to their contiuents or their large contributors? If you some the former, take the wool off your eyes.

I try and suggest to think outside the box (I hate the cliche) and I get called a dipsh!t. Think about it. Do professional athletes make what they make because (1) they are intrinsically worth it, (2) the team owners are benevolent, (3) they have an effective union, or (4) fans are willing to pay higher prices (either in ticket prices or pay extra cable tv deals). As long as the fans will pay more, athletes make more. As long as frax owners are willing to pay more, pilots may make more. If you don't get the owners to pay more, you will never make more. Services businesses are consumer driven. You need to make the owners want to pay more, just like the fans pay more. (I would say exorbitant athlete salaries, but the athletes think they are worth it). Until the customer/fan $$ dries up, there is more $$ available for the teams and the players. Why are NFL and NBA franchises worth 50x what they were 2o years ago.

Think outside the box, and stop thinking solely in the union/non-union/company battle. Create the demand.

 

[Timebuilder]

Do professional athletes make what they make because...

Because there is a very small number of upper echelon athletes, and the owners compete for this limited resource. It isn't because fans have expressed any particular willingness to pay a certain amount for anything. Fans spend the most on the team that wins, and the team that wins has the top players, and the top players command the largest salaries, since they are a "scarce" or "limited resource".

If the fractional companies are willing to pay the top money for the best pilots, then the owners will gravitate to that fractional company that has the best pilots, the best service, and the best safety record. No owner is going to demand that his crew is paid more money, either through the use of a website or an ad in the WSJ.

The driving force for pilot pay comes from the pilot group, not from the consumer, who will always try to receive premium service for minimum cost. The fractional operator understands the quality of pilots needed for their operation, and the economies of hiring and paying for the appropriate level of skill that is required.

Owners know only what they are being asked to pay for, and if they think it is excessive or unwarranted they will take their business elsewhere. There will be no force brought to bear by owners because they think their pilots are underpaid.

I went to the NYU business school. Where did you get these quaint ideas?

 

[beytzim]

I'm pretty sure we're being had by some 'other' frax pilot who's losing HIS patience with OUR contract....

Regardless, there are a couple of holes in his theories.

1. Major airlines have thousands and thousands of resumes of pilots begging to work for them. With his previous logic of supply and demand, major airlines shouldn't pay their pilots a lot of money. After all, they can easily be replaced by 50,000 young and willing commuter pilots. But, WRONG, they still pay them 300k a year! Blows that theory out of the water! That example can be further proved by corporate GV operators that pay their pilots 200k/year....They ALSO have lots of guys begging to work for them!

2. You're wrong on saying that most owners want to know about our pay etc. BullSh*t. The owners want to get from A to B with the least amount of hassle - hence fractionals! The last thing they need in the back of their minds is worrying about if the pilot is happy with their pay. Further, with most of our owners being CEOs or managemant themselves(read: anti-union), they would certainly side with Santulli.

3. You state that you can pay the pilot as much as the owners are willing to pay. That may be true if there was a transparent pay system. But there isn't. Owners pay a managemant fee that is subdivided into dozens of subcategories. The pilots, and certainly the owners have no idea on how they are divided. Also, NJA's goal is to make a profit, not enrichen pilots. Sports teams lose money left and right - that's a poor example to follow.

Sorry, boss, you're gonna have to try better than that.

 

[Huck]

Most union officials are paid better than their members, drive nicer cars than their members, and are more interested in their power and positions than their members' interests.

Hate to interrupt here but just to clarify: I have been an ALPA member for 8 years (and my father was for 31 years). Believe it or not, 99% of union work is done by volunteers. They do not make more money, they just have less time with their kids.

This thread is a pretty good example of why I left corporate flying 10 years ago. Blows my mind that someone will pay 4 million for a state of the art jet, then demand the lowest bidders in the front seats. Too bad they don't do surgery at Walmart - think of the money you could save!

 

[learflyer]

Hey Trainer Jet, I'm glad you don't want to work for the frax. We don't want your type here anyway. Just don't come crying to us for a job when you get furloughed!

 

[NJAowner]

Timebuilder .. my ideas come from NYC too. About 112 blocks uptown from your school on the #1 line. Do you know where that is?? Except when I went their the local coffee shop was Choc' Full o' Nuts for $0.30 not Starbucks for $5 a cup.

If you think customers (owners) do not have influence, look at the effects of the "dolphin safe tuna" campaign and campaign to have kathy Lee, Walmart, Nike stop using child labor to make their products. Customer perception is important. Not that I want my fees to increase, but if I believe I am getting better pilots for a $1000 increase in my monthy fee (over $13000), and I realize not the entire $1000 will go to the pilots, I and most other NJA owners are not going to go back to waiting in line at Continental Terminal C at Newark.

 

[NJAowner]

Misunderstood

I was misunderstrood on 2 points.

1. I never said you are not hungry. Just if you don't like the food don't tell the Company I complained. In fact, I have shared several meals with the crew when catering forgot your order.

2. I know you can not predict all turbulance. You do not have a crystal ball. Just do not complain to me or Columbus when a drink gets spilled because of the turbulance.

 

[Timebuilder]

About 112 blocks uptown from your school on the #1 line.

That would have to be Columbia. I remember the students taking over the administration building for a sit-in! Those were some fun days. I had a button on my coat that said "Student Mobilization Committee".

the local coffee shop was Choc' Full o' Nuts for $0.30 not Starbucks for $5 a cup.

We didn't have a Chock Full o' Nuts. I would stop at the University Deli for a "coffee regular". Our chain store was ZUM ZUM. I can't remember paying more than $.50. The BMT line was $.25. Now, I have to buy a Metrocard, and the ride is $2.00, and there is no longer a BMT or IRT line. Sheesh.

..look at the effects of the "dolphin safe tuna" campaign and campaign to have kathy Lee, Walmart, Nike stop using child labor to make their products. Customer perception is important.

I agree that these examples are good ones, but they are ALL mass marketed consumer items.


Fractional jet ownership isn't the same as those mass marketing companies who have high consumer visibility. Public perceptions, by their very nature, are based on a great number of people reacting with feelings in regard to an aspect of the business. This is the reason why advertising works.

In fractional ownership, a very small number of customers, compared to the number of WalMArt customers, for example, are the consumers. Because the number of customers is so small, issues involving pilot quality of life won't make it on to the radar screen of the vast majority of Americans. You won't hear a news piece on Entertainment Tonight about the exploitation (old activist term) of pilots, or the many years spent living in abject poverty in order to qualify for a job that may or may not pay even a middle class income. Your wife won't be stopped in the supermarket by a friend to discuss regional jets or scope. Your kids won't have a discussion in civics class about the legal discrimination of the age 60 rule.

Trying to reach the fractional owner or charter owner with issues that are outside of his normal area of concern are folly. He already likes or doesn't like the service his company provides, and none of those issues that are of interest to pilots are of any great interest to him. In fact, the reason he is a fractional owner in the first place is so that he can AVOID having to deal with pilot issues!

No, getting the owners involved with pilot issues will only serve to anger the management, and dissipate the energy pilots need to focus on those who must pay attention.

I rode the number one line this past Tuesday, for the first time in 31 years. I used to be a broadcaster, and I'm working on a new audition CD for the guys over on Madison ave. Every pilot needs a backup skill, right?

Thanks for the conversation.

 

[cgmason1]

Okay--this is the last time I will waste my time in reference to this thread--but I have to point out that NJA Owner is obviously not an NJA Owner-but some misguided soul that feels important if they are able to get someone to bite on their Flame Bait.
First of all this would never, I say again never-happen

"I did not appreciate the call from Owner Services becasue the pilot did not like the box lunch."

Obviously you are not familiar with our program since you have made such a statement.

And

"I know you can not predict all turbulance. You do not have a crystal ball. Just do not complain to me or Columbus when a drink gets spilled because of the turbulance."

I have no idea what you are getting at here-cause this also would never happen-lets use common sense-why would a crew complain to an owner or the company about Turbulence(thats how its correctly spelled) or for any drinks being spilled-after all its the "Owners Airplane!" thats why they buy a share in it.

Please get a spelling dictionary before you try to pass yourself off as an owner-Aka a Highly Successful Person.

Lastly-I recommend all NJA Pilots and others do as I am now doing-hit the Ignore Button for this profile.

Fly Safe
Chuck

 

[BBJPILOT]

`

 

[NJAowner]

BBJ Pilot -- I agree with your closing paragraph and that is part of what I have been trying to say. Also, like a drug addict, once you start flying frax, you do not want to go back and will make other cuts before you give up the plane.

cgmason -- my meal and the pilots' came from an Albertson's supermarket somewhere in the Mountain time zone. In the small town it is where the FBO gets catering. A few mid-quality cold cut slices on white bread or a hamburger roll constitutes the sandwich platter, along with the pre-made Del Monte fruit bowl and tossed salads. Hey, I don't fly for the food. The pilot did not like her/his turkey on a hamburger roll, aplogozed to me in flight that the catering was not up to NJA standards (I said I did not mind). 2 days later owner services calls and apologizes to me for the catering and said the pilot relayed my complaint. I had no complaint. Now different flight, with the turbulence, my son and daughter spilled Coke - some on the side carpeting under the windows. That along with the fact that the caterer put a bowl of pickles and lettuce & tomates along side of the sandwiches which the crew secured in the lav on top of their flight bags. Between the straps and the turbulence, the container was tilted and the pickle "juice" leaked out between the lid and tghe bottom of the container onto the lav floor and the crew bags. I guess when the plane smelled of pickles and had spilled Coke (I never fill the plastic up more than 1/2 full), the crew informed someone that we "trashed the plane". Owner Services called and said that the condition the plane was left when we departed was "not accpetable" and they would appreciate it if we were neater on board.

 

[trainerjet]

Hey Trainer Jet, I'm glad you don't want to work for the frax. We don't want your type here anyway. Just don't come crying to us for a job when you get furloughed!

Not to worry, mate. Like I said, I'd rather clean the toilets at the Y. Plus, you're at least 10 times more likely to lose your job at your particular frac than I am at my particular airline. So, don't worry about me. Just try not to drag your tie in the honey bucket.

Just kidding...really, I have nothing against the frac pilots. Every one that I know are great guys. I'm just not the least bit interested in dealing with the "owners".

 

[learflyer]

Actually, the color of our ties kind of match the color of some of the contents in the lav! So I guess i'm not hurting it that much!

 

[NastyGirl]

So where's the web page I can go to read about what going on with upper management. Any salary or union problems? I think not? In fact the CEO of American made so much money off his pilots he uses Flight Options now to jet him around on vacations after he left the company.