Owner Speaks

[atpcliff]

Hi!

To NJAOwner. I would suggest getting the pager or cell phone number of the pilot that is waiting for you, so U can contact him directly if things change.

Unless NJA has a policy against doing that, I would want the owner to be able to get in touch with me directly if he needed to.

Cliff
GRB

PS-I'd love to fly for one of the fractionals.
Also, I believe that Flight Options pays their pilots the most, and I believe that NetJets owners pay the most-if I am right about the above two "facts", then something is out of whack.

 

[NJA Capt]

I would suggest getting the pager or cell phone number of the pilot that is waiting for you, so U can contact him directly if things change.

Unless NJA has a policy against doing that, I would want the owner to be able to get in touch with me directly if he needed to.

Pagers and cell phones are not always in range. Cell phones are also not expensed by the company so mine is always in the O-F-F position. True owners know their private NJA number to reach dispatch and they also know the FBO's number and frequently contact us that way. Contacting the pilot is not difficult. I'm sure many owners do not want to leave their home phone numbers on someone's pager either.

Aircraft numbers and/or crews change frequently. An owner could page "Bob" with a late departure time, when he is 900 miles away. And "Roy" is at the FBO waiting. The number thing works in a corp flt dept, but not in a fractional.

I believe that Flight Options pays their pilots the most, and I believe that NetJets owners pay the most-if I am right about the above two "facts", then something is out of whack.

Things are not always as clear as they appear, Grasshopper.
$1.50 is more than $1.48 though, right?

Let's not hijack this thread into this again.

 

[English]

I guess I'm missing the big picture here...but then again, I'm just a pilot and what do I know?

It seems we have a person here who is a share owner in a aircraft with concerns/complaints about the service he/she received. Whether or not he/she truly is an owner, I think we should all listen to the message (I guess except trainerjet??? - <gentle nudge>).

Customer service should be a priority, right along with safety of flight issues. We cannot live in a little box in the cockpit isolated from "those people in the back". Many pilots (including fractional pilots) got their first "real" flying job at a regional airline, and learned passenger indifference from this experience. Those that came up the corporate side of the house probably learned better a little earlier on. I say this not to flame, but am commenting on my own experiences. When I worked at a regional, the only thing the pilots were ever taught regarding the passengers was how to deal with unruly passengers, what to do when a passenger suggests the pilot is drunk, and things along those lines. We were never told or encouraged to be proactive in keeping the passengers happy. And so we didn't.

When I came to my little fractional company, I was able to have one-on-one interaction with my passengers. I LOVED IT. Yes, it's true. I get pleasure in having a friendly atmosphere in my airplane. I believe it comes with the mutual respect between the passengers and the crew. If I am polite and gracious to my passengers, they will be the same to me. If I go out of my way for them, they will do the same for me. It's a societal issue. If I flip someone off on the freeway, they will probably flip me off right back. If I'm nice to everyone I come in contact with, they'll be nice right back.

Maybe my optimism is getting in the way, but I've always felt that if you do a good job, you will be rewarded, financially or otherwise. I know NetJets guys are a little unhappy with their contract negotations relating to pay issues. But you should be able to get some kind of reward (like contentment and job satisfaction) by putting your best out there every day. If the entire company does that, won't the pay rewards follow? I know, a little PollyAnna, but I'd feel better knowing I'd earned it through hard work.

(edited for spelling)

 

[NJAowner]

Cell phones, pagers and $$

The cell phone topic started with me a few posts back when I said that several times when I have been running late, I called my Owner Services Team to inform them and they did not notify the pilots, who were pissed. I do not want pilots cell phone/pager #s--you are right, a/c and pilots changes often -- and I walk around with enough phone numbers. What I now do which works great -- I call the FBO directly. It works great. Either they call the pilot to the phone or tell him. It works better at small airports than at MDW. NJA puts the FBO phone number on each rservation request so I always have it with me.

As far as the $$$, for new aircraft, FO and NJA are real close on costs. For other a/c like the Citation X, the monthly and hourly fees are almost identical; it is just NJA costs more since it is a brand new plane not a used one. We re-upped with NJA a few years ago and love it. I will not get into my "perceptions" -- note all preceptions not fact--- since I have gotten my share of flaming and now feel like a mashmallow left in the campfire for 20 minutes.

 

[Timebuilder]

I believe it comes with the mutual respect between the passengers and the crew.

Unfortunately, this is often a one-way street, with the crew showing respect to the passengers, many of whom are "indifferent", to say the least.

If I am polite and gracious to my passengers, they will be the same to me. If I go out of my way for them, they will do the same for me. It's a societal issue.

I'm a Dale Carnegie course grad, and I can tell you that the polite, cheerful attitude can only engender a similar response a part of the time. That's the reality of the situation. Even so, I continue to give the best service I can.

Mr. Owner, the pilots should NEVER let you know that their displeasure has reached the level of "pi$$ed". While this is a human response, it should not be shared with you. They should be talking to their people, instead, and trying to find out how to avoid poor communications in the future.

I'd recommend that the Net Jets pilots start a portal for customer communication with the pilot group, where owners can bring problems to the attention of the pilots as a whole. Owners then can comment without fear of having a pilot lose his job, allowing for learning from mistakes and improving service.

Just a thought.

 

[English]

Gee, Timebuilder, I don't understand. I've never had a single "indifferent" passenger. Maybe it's because I'm on the west coast, and you are on the east coast? I don't know what the answer is. I guess I should count myself as extremely fortunate.

 

[Timebuilder]

Could be all of the passengers I was taking out of HPN, TEB, and MMU!

 

[Live4flyng]

English

I know NetJets guys are a little unhappy with their contract negotations relating to pay issues. But you should be able to get some kind of reward (like contentment and job satisfaction) by putting your best out there every day. If the entire company does that, won't the pay rewards follow?

What makes you think the NJA pilots don't already do that? I'm sure Netjets didn't get to be the leader in the fractional world by treating owners with an airline attitude. What company was it again that started fractional ownership?

 

[English]

It was NJAowner's post that made me think that the owners are being treated that way. Didn't you read his comments?

 

[Timebuilder]

Well, first of all, he only mentioned a few pilots.

Then:

Example -- recently a pilot who did not like the pilot lunch from the caterer in a rural city we fly into often. We thought the food was and is usually fine (not great) and we know the place it comes from (a town w/o a flight caterer). After the flight the piot complained to Columbus that we bitched that the food was bad. I did not appreciate the call from Owner Services becasue the pilot did not like the box lunch.

I think there is another way to look at this.

I might have made such a call, without the urging of my passenger, if the food was not up to company standards. Why wait for a customer to complain? The pilot may have been acting proactively, and not just because he thought the food wasn't good enough for him. As a customer, I wouldn't be offended if a crew did this. That's just another perspective, though.

As a guy who has seen good catering and bad, I see it as a reflection on my company when the food isn't up to snuff, even if the customer is too nice to complain.

 

[beytzim]

To NJA Owner,

The reason you are getting flamed is due to the credibility question. Even though this web site is anonymous, many of us know each other and speak outside of this board. In addition, because the aviation community is 'a small world', every one knows someone who knows someone. The truth about one's background or current position is brought up soon enough.

To claim you are an NJA owner is pretty ballsy. Not to show REAL proof is unfortunate for you and us. If we truly believed you were an Owner, these posts would be significantly nicer and more respectful.

Better luck next time, my friend.

 

[NJAowner]

I'll admit... it did take some guts to come onto this board and tell all of you I am an owner. I thought I could open a dialogue; some of you have started in private and that is good. Others o nthis board flame me in public yet say the opposite in PM. Too embarrassed?

I have never asked one of you to actually prove you are a NJA pilot. I'm sure at leat 1/2 of you who claim you area only dream of it. If I gave you my tail #, you would claim I got the info off the FAA web site. If I sent you a copy of my Aircraft Bill of Sale (Form 8050-2, OMB approved form 2120-004) signed by David Beach, Sr. VP, Executive Jet Sales (yes, I am pre NJA, I am from the EJA days) you would say it was a copy. If I showed up on your plane you would say someone let me use their plane. I have described my monthly bill down to how many inches below x is y, and it x print smaller or larger than y print. I have been asked to name my onwer services team by 3 of you, none of which will verify whether I am right or wrong -- beacuse you don't know. I give first names -- one of you asks for last names. One of you asks which one I speak to most. I have been asked the color of the hand towels in the Excel lav (pilots would know this).

Timebuilder said he recommends that NJ pilot start a portal where pilots and owners can discuss issues. BINGO. That was all I have been trying to do. But we can't get off square 1.

And many of you missed my comment even after I have clarified it 2 or 3 times. I have absolutely, positivley no problem with a pilot acting proactively. I encourage it and support it. My only complaint was that the pilot told Columbus I did not like the food. I wpent 20 minutes on the phone with COlumbus before I found out why. They called to check on catering, what did I order, how was the quality, how did it compare with my chicken caeser salad from Rudy's, from Miami, from MDW. Size, portion, dressing (on the side or on top to wilt the lettuce). Sandwich tray ..what types of condiments, bread, rolls, amount of meat be sandwich, size of the sandwich (was it cut into enough pieces); big enough for me but was it too large for the kids; if the right size for the kids was it too small for my wife and I; how did the quality of the cold cuts compare with the quality of cold cuts from Rudy's (since we fly in or out of NJ for most flight, they used Rudy's as our baseline); what about extra goodies packed with the food; presentation; was it in a clean box of a recycled french fry box; was it fresh. Did I know where the catering came from in this town. What did I think. WHat are the bestter restaurants in town. What are the better deli/take out in town (there is none it is a small town). Stop..stop..stop. Why are you asking me all these questions I asked (I haven't been grilled that hard since my parents asked me questions in high school). "We want to make sure you are happy with the catering .. we have heard otherwise". From whom, "the captain of your flight last Sunday said you and your wife were very hunappy with the catering. We wnt to make sure you are happy in the future and strive to meet your expectations on every flight" (I may be off by a word or 2 in quotes). All fine and dandy until I found out that the piot complained and she had complained to me in flight about hers. That's where this all started.

Please give me some of the fu*king respect I have shown you. (I apologize for venting).

 

[Timebuilder]

All fine and dandy until I found out that the piot complained and she had complained to me in flight about hers. That's where this all started.

I think I would have proactively called management myself, and told them that you had not complained, but that the food was not up to standard.

 

[NJAowner]

BINGO! Thank you!

But I guess the pilot did want to be a whiner at NJA.

The Devils just finished regulation with the Ducks 0-0 so I am back at the keyboard for a few minutes. And no, an owner wouldn't necessarily use his hours to go to the game. I only have 100 hour for business and pleasure and the number of Excel hours to get from NJ to Anaheim isn't worth is for this game. I use 10+ (round trip) everytime I go to my vacation home in the Rockies. I am not flush with hours. I'm not complaining but 100 hours is not that much when you use 10 at a shot. Of course if I had a palce in Nantucket or Bar Harbor I would ohnly use 2 per round trip. Call it marital compromise. When the NY Jets get to the Super Bowl is a completely different story. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** the hours .. that's once in a lifetime!!!!!!!

OK.. I live in NJ. That won't give me away since the founder has sold many shares here.

 

[CounterGirl]

OK, I'm going to jump in here....I'm obviously not a NJ pilot, but I work with them on a daily basis, and I feel I have a little insight as to what goes on for their trips.

NJAowner: you are going the wrong direction in pushing for a portal where issues can be discussed. This message board probably won't make that happen--you need to talk to Net Jets directly and tell them your ideas.

As for the catering incident you have often mentioned, it sounds to me like that was a one-time thing that has been over-expanded. I'm sure the five minute phone call from owner services did not disrupt your daily routine and take up too much time (after all, you seem to have time to 'monitor' this board!). It was probably taken out of context anyway (based on all the NJ pilots I know, I think Timebuilder's interpretation of that incident is most likely).

If you only knew all the stuff your pilots do for you behind the scenes, this little incident wouldn't be such a big deal! I have seen NJ pilots frantically on the phone with Columbus, caterers, limo drivers, etc., and cleaning the planes up and gathering the 'right' newpapers.....trying to get things in order for the flights! Trust me, these guys and gals work hard to make things go smoothly, but I bet 9 times out of 10 you NEVER see the things that go on before you arrive at the airport!

I must say that I applaud you for taking an active interest in the company you invest so much money in; but I would also venture to say you are in the minority--I doubt most owners really care about the logistics end of things. But please, don't turn one negative incident into a reason to vent on this board to a bunch of pilots who bust their butts for you.