Owner Speaks

[learflyer]

Hey Trainer Jet, I'm glad you don't want to work for the frax. We don't want your type here anyway. Just don't come crying to us for a job when you get furloughed!

 

[NJAowner]

Timebuilder .. my ideas come from NYC too. About 112 blocks uptown from your school on the #1 line. Do you know where that is?? Except when I went their the local coffee shop was Choc' Full o' Nuts for $0.30 not Starbucks for $5 a cup.

If you think customers (owners) do not have influence, look at the effects of the "dolphin safe tuna" campaign and campaign to have kathy Lee, Walmart, Nike stop using child labor to make their products. Customer perception is important. Not that I want my fees to increase, but if I believe I am getting better pilots for a $1000 increase in my monthy fee (over $13000), and I realize not the entire $1000 will go to the pilots, I and most other NJA owners are not going to go back to waiting in line at Continental Terminal C at Newark.

 

[NJAowner]

Misunderstood

I was misunderstrood on 2 points.

1. I never said you are not hungry. Just if you don't like the food don't tell the Company I complained. In fact, I have shared several meals with the crew when catering forgot your order.

2. I know you can not predict all turbulance. You do not have a crystal ball. Just do not complain to me or Columbus when a drink gets spilled because of the turbulance.

 

[Timebuilder]

About 112 blocks uptown from your school on the #1 line.

That would have to be Columbia. I remember the students taking over the administration building for a sit-in! Those were some fun days. I had a button on my coat that said "Student Mobilization Committee".

the local coffee shop was Choc' Full o' Nuts for $0.30 not Starbucks for $5 a cup.

We didn't have a Chock Full o' Nuts. I would stop at the University Deli for a "coffee regular". Our chain store was ZUM ZUM. I can't remember paying more than $.50. The BMT line was $.25. Now, I have to buy a Metrocard, and the ride is $2.00, and there is no longer a BMT or IRT line. Sheesh.

..look at the effects of the "dolphin safe tuna" campaign and campaign to have kathy Lee, Walmart, Nike stop using child labor to make their products. Customer perception is important.

I agree that these examples are good ones, but they are ALL mass marketed consumer items.


Fractional jet ownership isn't the same as those mass marketing companies who have high consumer visibility. Public perceptions, by their very nature, are based on a great number of people reacting with feelings in regard to an aspect of the business. This is the reason why advertising works.

In fractional ownership, a very small number of customers, compared to the number of WalMArt customers, for example, are the consumers. Because the number of customers is so small, issues involving pilot quality of life won't make it on to the radar screen of the vast majority of Americans. You won't hear a news piece on Entertainment Tonight about the exploitation (old activist term) of pilots, or the many years spent living in abject poverty in order to qualify for a job that may or may not pay even a middle class income. Your wife won't be stopped in the supermarket by a friend to discuss regional jets or scope. Your kids won't have a discussion in civics class about the legal discrimination of the age 60 rule.

Trying to reach the fractional owner or charter owner with issues that are outside of his normal area of concern are folly. He already likes or doesn't like the service his company provides, and none of those issues that are of interest to pilots are of any great interest to him. In fact, the reason he is a fractional owner in the first place is so that he can AVOID having to deal with pilot issues!

No, getting the owners involved with pilot issues will only serve to anger the management, and dissipate the energy pilots need to focus on those who must pay attention.

I rode the number one line this past Tuesday, for the first time in 31 years. I used to be a broadcaster, and I'm working on a new audition CD for the guys over on Madison ave. Every pilot needs a backup skill, right?

Thanks for the conversation.

 

[cgmason1]

Okay--this is the last time I will waste my time in reference to this thread--but I have to point out that NJA Owner is obviously not an NJA Owner-but some misguided soul that feels important if they are able to get someone to bite on their Flame Bait.
First of all this would never, I say again never-happen

"I did not appreciate the call from Owner Services becasue the pilot did not like the box lunch."

Obviously you are not familiar with our program since you have made such a statement.

And

"I know you can not predict all turbulance. You do not have a crystal ball. Just do not complain to me or Columbus when a drink gets spilled because of the turbulance."

I have no idea what you are getting at here-cause this also would never happen-lets use common sense-why would a crew complain to an owner or the company about Turbulence(thats how its correctly spelled) or for any drinks being spilled-after all its the "Owners Airplane!" thats why they buy a share in it.

Please get a spelling dictionary before you try to pass yourself off as an owner-Aka a Highly Successful Person.

Lastly-I recommend all NJA Pilots and others do as I am now doing-hit the Ignore Button for this profile.

Fly Safe
Chuck

 

[BBJPILOT]

`

 

[NJAowner]

BBJ Pilot -- I agree with your closing paragraph and that is part of what I have been trying to say. Also, like a drug addict, once you start flying frax, you do not want to go back and will make other cuts before you give up the plane.

cgmason -- my meal and the pilots' came from an Albertson's supermarket somewhere in the Mountain time zone. In the small town it is where the FBO gets catering. A few mid-quality cold cut slices on white bread or a hamburger roll constitutes the sandwich platter, along with the pre-made Del Monte fruit bowl and tossed salads. Hey, I don't fly for the food. The pilot did not like her/his turkey on a hamburger roll, aplogozed to me in flight that the catering was not up to NJA standards (I said I did not mind). 2 days later owner services calls and apologizes to me for the catering and said the pilot relayed my complaint. I had no complaint. Now different flight, with the turbulence, my son and daughter spilled Coke - some on the side carpeting under the windows. That along with the fact that the caterer put a bowl of pickles and lettuce & tomates along side of the sandwiches which the crew secured in the lav on top of their flight bags. Between the straps and the turbulence, the container was tilted and the pickle "juice" leaked out between the lid and tghe bottom of the container onto the lav floor and the crew bags. I guess when the plane smelled of pickles and had spilled Coke (I never fill the plastic up more than 1/2 full), the crew informed someone that we "trashed the plane". Owner Services called and said that the condition the plane was left when we departed was "not accpetable" and they would appreciate it if we were neater on board.

 

[trainerjet]

Hey Trainer Jet, I'm glad you don't want to work for the frax. We don't want your type here anyway. Just don't come crying to us for a job when you get furloughed!

Not to worry, mate. Like I said, I'd rather clean the toilets at the Y. Plus, you're at least 10 times more likely to lose your job at your particular frac than I am at my particular airline. So, don't worry about me. Just try not to drag your tie in the honey bucket.

Just kidding...really, I have nothing against the frac pilots. Every one that I know are great guys. I'm just not the least bit interested in dealing with the "owners".

 

[learflyer]

Actually, the color of our ties kind of match the color of some of the contents in the lav! So I guess i'm not hurting it that much!

 

[NastyGirl]

So where's the web page I can go to read about what going on with upper management. Any salary or union problems? I think not? In fact the CEO of American made so much money off his pilots he uses Flight Options now to jet him around on vacations after he left the company.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

To NJAOwner. I would suggest getting the pager or cell phone number of the pilot that is waiting for you, so U can contact him directly if things change.

Unless NJA has a policy against doing that, I would want the owner to be able to get in touch with me directly if he needed to.

Cliff
GRB

PS-I'd love to fly for one of the fractionals.
Also, I believe that Flight Options pays their pilots the most, and I believe that NetJets owners pay the most-if I am right about the above two "facts", then something is out of whack.

 

[NJA Capt]

I would suggest getting the pager or cell phone number of the pilot that is waiting for you, so U can contact him directly if things change.

Unless NJA has a policy against doing that, I would want the owner to be able to get in touch with me directly if he needed to.

Pagers and cell phones are not always in range. Cell phones are also not expensed by the company so mine is always in the O-F-F position. True owners know their private NJA number to reach dispatch and they also know the FBO's number and frequently contact us that way. Contacting the pilot is not difficult. I'm sure many owners do not want to leave their home phone numbers on someone's pager either.

Aircraft numbers and/or crews change frequently. An owner could page "Bob" with a late departure time, when he is 900 miles away. And "Roy" is at the FBO waiting. The number thing works in a corp flt dept, but not in a fractional.

I believe that Flight Options pays their pilots the most, and I believe that NetJets owners pay the most-if I am right about the above two "facts", then something is out of whack.

Things are not always as clear as they appear, Grasshopper.
$1.50 is more than $1.48 though, right?

Let's not hijack this thread into this again.

 

[English]

I guess I'm missing the big picture here...but then again, I'm just a pilot and what do I know?

It seems we have a person here who is a share owner in a aircraft with concerns/complaints about the service he/she received. Whether or not he/she truly is an owner, I think we should all listen to the message (I guess except trainerjet??? - <gentle nudge>).

Customer service should be a priority, right along with safety of flight issues. We cannot live in a little box in the cockpit isolated from "those people in the back". Many pilots (including fractional pilots) got their first "real" flying job at a regional airline, and learned passenger indifference from this experience. Those that came up the corporate side of the house probably learned better a little earlier on. I say this not to flame, but am commenting on my own experiences. When I worked at a regional, the only thing the pilots were ever taught regarding the passengers was how to deal with unruly passengers, what to do when a passenger suggests the pilot is drunk, and things along those lines. We were never told or encouraged to be proactive in keeping the passengers happy. And so we didn't.

When I came to my little fractional company, I was able to have one-on-one interaction with my passengers. I LOVED IT. Yes, it's true. I get pleasure in having a friendly atmosphere in my airplane. I believe it comes with the mutual respect between the passengers and the crew. If I am polite and gracious to my passengers, they will be the same to me. If I go out of my way for them, they will do the same for me. It's a societal issue. If I flip someone off on the freeway, they will probably flip me off right back. If I'm nice to everyone I come in contact with, they'll be nice right back.

Maybe my optimism is getting in the way, but I've always felt that if you do a good job, you will be rewarded, financially or otherwise. I know NetJets guys are a little unhappy with their contract negotations relating to pay issues. But you should be able to get some kind of reward (like contentment and job satisfaction) by putting your best out there every day. If the entire company does that, won't the pay rewards follow? I know, a little PollyAnna, but I'd feel better knowing I'd earned it through hard work.

(edited for spelling)

 

[NJAowner]

Cell phones, pagers and $$

The cell phone topic started with me a few posts back when I said that several times when I have been running late, I called my Owner Services Team to inform them and they did not notify the pilots, who were pissed. I do not want pilots cell phone/pager #s--you are right, a/c and pilots changes often -- and I walk around with enough phone numbers. What I now do which works great -- I call the FBO directly. It works great. Either they call the pilot to the phone or tell him. It works better at small airports than at MDW. NJA puts the FBO phone number on each rservation request so I always have it with me.

As far as the $$$, for new aircraft, FO and NJA are real close on costs. For other a/c like the Citation X, the monthly and hourly fees are almost identical; it is just NJA costs more since it is a brand new plane not a used one. We re-upped with NJA a few years ago and love it. I will not get into my "perceptions" -- note all preceptions not fact--- since I have gotten my share of flaming and now feel like a mashmallow left in the campfire for 20 minutes.

 

[Timebuilder]

I believe it comes with the mutual respect between the passengers and the crew.

Unfortunately, this is often a one-way street, with the crew showing respect to the passengers, many of whom are "indifferent", to say the least.

If I am polite and gracious to my passengers, they will be the same to me. If I go out of my way for them, they will do the same for me. It's a societal issue.

I'm a Dale Carnegie course grad, and I can tell you that the polite, cheerful attitude can only engender a similar response a part of the time. That's the reality of the situation. Even so, I continue to give the best service I can.

Mr. Owner, the pilots should NEVER let you know that their displeasure has reached the level of "pi$$ed". While this is a human response, it should not be shared with you. They should be talking to their people, instead, and trying to find out how to avoid poor communications in the future.

I'd recommend that the Net Jets pilots start a portal for customer communication with the pilot group, where owners can bring problems to the attention of the pilots as a whole. Owners then can comment without fear of having a pilot lose his job, allowing for learning from mistakes and improving service.

Just a thought.

 

[English]

Gee, Timebuilder, I don't understand. I've never had a single "indifferent" passenger. Maybe it's because I'm on the west coast, and you are on the east coast? I don't know what the answer is. I guess I should count myself as extremely fortunate.

 

[Timebuilder]

Could be all of the passengers I was taking out of HPN, TEB, and MMU!

 

[Live4flyng]

English

I know NetJets guys are a little unhappy with their contract negotations relating to pay issues. But you should be able to get some kind of reward (like contentment and job satisfaction) by putting your best out there every day. If the entire company does that, won't the pay rewards follow?

What makes you think the NJA pilots don't already do that? I'm sure Netjets didn't get to be the leader in the fractional world by treating owners with an airline attitude. What company was it again that started fractional ownership?

 

[English]

It was NJAowner's post that made me think that the owners are being treated that way. Didn't you read his comments?

 

[Timebuilder]

Well, first of all, he only mentioned a few pilots.

Then:

Example -- recently a pilot who did not like the pilot lunch from the caterer in a rural city we fly into often. We thought the food was and is usually fine (not great) and we know the place it comes from (a town w/o a flight caterer). After the flight the piot complained to Columbus that we bitched that the food was bad. I did not appreciate the call from Owner Services becasue the pilot did not like the box lunch.

I think there is another way to look at this.

I might have made such a call, without the urging of my passenger, if the food was not up to company standards. Why wait for a customer to complain? The pilot may have been acting proactively, and not just because he thought the food wasn't good enough for him. As a customer, I wouldn't be offended if a crew did this. That's just another perspective, though.

As a guy who has seen good catering and bad, I see it as a reflection on my company when the food isn't up to snuff, even if the customer is too nice to complain.