Over AGE 60 PILOTS TO FLY IN UNITED STATES

[The Prussian]

Do you want a 61 year old fireman carrying you down a burning staircase?

Don't believe I've seen the need for a pilot to carry anybody down an airstair.

 

[Larcifer]

Are there any other "action sites" besides the ALPA's dedicated to keeping the age limit at 60? Or maybe lowering it to 55

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Here ya go Undaunted!

http://www.thescooterstore.com/



Always glad to lend a helping hand for you old geezers!

BBB

 

[General Lee]

Don't believe I've seen the need for a pilot to carry anybody down an airstair.

Can a 61 year old fireman do a CAT 3 app? Some 59--almost 60 year old pilots probably shouldn't. Your argument is weak.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Same reason why there is still child labor in some countries, or women are treated like slaves, or Indians think that a cow could have been their relative in former life. Simply put, Undaunted, different cultures = different laws AND not all have a reason and/or are logical. Wanna fly past 60? Go to Canada or any other country that has such a disregard for safety.

If you are against it for safety reasons, state the facts. The FAA (Blakely) has stated that there is no evidence to support keeping the rule as is. Of the pilots that have introduced unneeded excitement into the cockpit, most of them were under 35, rather than over 55.

 

[The Prussian]

Can a 61 year old fireman do a CAT 3 app?

Once again, comparing apples to oranges....I agree on your last statement...your argument is weak!

 

[FoxHunter]

I am ABSOLUTELY against raising the age limit, but the English do it in a way that they seem to like. No Captains over age 60, and they can move to the right seat at that age, until age 62 I believe. That way, the upgrades are still there, and the old captains get to still fly for a couple years, taking orders from their former FOs. There would be a slow down in hiring though, since no seats would open, but the upgrades would still happen. I am still against it, for safety reasons.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, I believe you are talking about the British, some happen to be English. BA is in the process of changing thei retirement from age 55 to 60 and to 65 five years from now. The other airlines at present have Captains up to the age of 65. The problem has been that some countries such as France and Italy have not recognized the JAA standard of age 65. That will change late this year when the ICAO standard is changed from age 60 to 65. That British 747 ahead of you may have an age 63 Captain and the German airliner behind you may have an age 64 Captain during your arrival in Atlanta.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

lets see...greed..failed marriageS...invested in elephants that poop gold bars...money mismanagement..no life...oh well..i will have to be #1 on the seniority list for another 5 years...

There are elephants that can poop gold bars? Let me in!

 

[General Lee]

General, I believe you are talking about the British, some happen to be English. BA is in the process of changing thei retirement from age 55 to 60 and to 65 five years from now. The other airlines at present have Captains up to the age of 65. The problem has been that some countries such as France and Italy have not recognized the JAA standard of age 65. That will change late this year when the ICAO standard is changed from age 60 to 65. That British 747 ahead of you may have an age 63 Captain and the German airliner behind you may have an age 64 Captain during your arrival in Atlanta.

Thanks for the warnings. I will plan accordingly---I will make sure we have a lot of space for the inevitable long landing and slow turn off from that old captain ahead. And, the old guy behind me might have to go around if his FO doesn't warn him what is actually going on. (if he can actually hear his FO)


Hey, I know you like your job Foxhunter, but it will be time to retire and allow someone else the chance to experience what you know. At least you have a pension.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[lostplnetairman]

What if the FO is older? Geez, you are so silly! Do you even read what you write before posting it? Your argument has no merit.

HR Diva

 

[General Lee]

What if the FO is older? Geez, you are so silly! Do you even read what you write before posting it? Your argument has no merit.

HR Diva

We all know the Stews are older, no questions there. Maybe certain CEOs are too old and needs to step down also. There should be age limitations in every profession that carry large responsibilities. But, if we do that, the lawyers will hate it, even the old lawyers cashing in on mistakes made by the elderly. My argument makes sense.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Once again, comparing apples to oranges....I agree on your last statement...your argument is weak!

Wait a second, your profile fits a LUV 737 Captain. No surprise. You were probably one of the guys who lost in front of the Supreme Court.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Just to be factual, the FAA waiver case for over age 60 pilots was not lost in the Supreme Court. It was just not heard at that level.

 

[lostplnetairman]

We all know the Stews are older, no questions there. Maybe certain CEOs are too old and needs to step down also. There should be age limitations in every profession that carry large responsibilities. But, if we do that, the lawyers will hate it, even the old lawyers cashing in on mistakes made by the elderly. My argument makes sense.


Bye Bye--General Lee

What does a "Stew" have to do with an FO? Gosh, all these young pilots who can't pay attention to detail need to go to pasture! LOL!

HR Diva

 

[The Prussian]

You were probably one of the guys who lost in front of the Supreme Court.

...(buzzer sounds)...Wrong again!.. Still Captain and luving it. Got a ways to go, too! With as many at-bats as you've had, G.L., you realize three strikes and you're out, right???

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

For years, lots of over age 60 airline pilots have been flying into the US already, as many foreign countries either have no age limit, or they have one that is over age 60.

At our company, we are planning on pilots flying to age 65 beginning Nov/Dec of this year. I don't know any of the details, but some of our mgmt believe the FAA will change their regs to match ICAO.

All of the congressional/court actions don't apply in this case. They were all to force the FAA to change their regs. The FAA can always change their regs when they want to, which is what I have been led to believe will happen.

The only problem I have with it is why is their an age limit at all. Many of us, like myself, can't get SocSec/Medicaire at age 65. I'll have to wait to age 67. As our population ages, the SS/M age will have to be moved, and will end up being at least in the 70s, or maybe even later than that.

It is unfair to make pilots retire before they can collect SocSec/Medicaire.

Cliff
GRB

 

[Big Beer Belly]

The only problem I have with it is why is their an age limit at all. Many of us, like myself, can't get SocSec/Medicaire at age 65. I'll have to wait to age 67. As our population ages, the SS/M age will have to be moved, and will end up being at least in the 70s, or maybe even later than that.

It is unfair to make pilots retire before they can collect SocSec/Medicaire.

Cliff
GRB

Another "FLY TILL YOU DIE" advocate! LOL!!


Cliff, it's called planning for your future pal and it includes planning for your financial future. Start today with a savings account and some professional financial advice. That way when you turn 60 you won't be reliant on the government (your fellow citizens) for your survival. I know it sounds scary ... providing for yourself and all ... but you'll be better for it Cliff. Good luck.

BBB

 

[xjhawk]

once again idiotic statements by the general......

The Supreme Court disagrees with you. They ruled against a group of Southwest pilots who wanted the rules changed. They stated that they would have to change the rules for more groups, like firemen and policemen. I don't want a 62 year old fireman carrying me out of a burning house. Nope.

this guy is a tool......how physical is flying an airplane, not like carrying a person or going to eat donuts before taking care of a domestic call. someone who is a senior pilot already has enough medical checks to warrent changing the rules!

 

[General Lee]

Hi!

For years, lots of over age 60 airline pilots have been flying into the US already, as many foreign countries either have no age limit, or they have one that is over age 60.

At our company, we are planning on pilots flying to age 65 beginning Nov/Dec of this year. I don't know any of the details, but some of our mgmt believe the FAA will change their regs to match ICAO.

All of the congressional/court actions don't apply in this case. They were all to force the FAA to change their regs. The FAA can always change their regs when they want to, which is what I have been led to believe will happen.

The only problem I have with it is why is their an age limit at all. Many of us, like myself, can't get SocSec/Medicaire at age 65. I'll have to wait to age 67. As our population ages, the SS/M age will have to be moved, and will end up being at least in the 70s, or maybe even later than that.

It is unfair to make pilots retire before they can collect SocSec/Medicaire.

Cliff
GRB

How about firemen and policemen? Is it unfair to make them retire too before that age? Do you want 64 year old cops running after gang members in NYC? That would be interesting.

But, there are positions available for over age 60 pilots here in the US that allows for more safety for larger groups (airliners). There is corporate flying, banner towing, traffic watch, CFI'ing, and sim instructing. Turning age 60 does not mean you have to quit aviation totally.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

The Supreme Court disagrees with you. They ruled against a group of Southwest pilots who wanted the rules changed. They stated that they would have to change the rules for more groups, like firemen and policemen. I don't want a 62 year old fireman carrying me out of a burning house. Nope.

this guy is a tool......how physical is flying an airplane, not like carrying a person or going to eat donuts before taking care of a domestic call. someone who is a senior pilot already has enough medical checks to warrent changing the rules!

You're the idiot. You obviously haven't flown with any super old Captains at Mesaba. How physical is flying an airplane? How about flying across thousands of timezones throughout your 30 plus years as a pilot? Ever seen a Captain fall asleep right after takeoff? A cockpit isn't supposed to be your couch near the TV, as many senior captains think. Maybe flying in your Saab is different, but not over here and at long haul flying. Think before you type, and ask people who have experience in this area before making idiotic statements yourself. Just because it may not be "physically" tough flying planes, doesn't mean it isn't tough on your body after 30 years. Will they fall asleep in the doctor's office every 6 months? Doubtful. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

That matters if that is what is important to you. But if you're interested in truth, justice, and the American Way,....well,...

And come on,....safety added as an after thought??!!

BS. The truth is no pilot working right now could reasonably expect to be working past 60 when they started. Most have benefitted from the rule and have advanced accordingly. If you are interested in truth, justice, etc. then you should muster some respect for the entire seniority process and hold better regard for what will happen to those to come after you. It is inadequate to simply rellagate them to working longer.

FYI: I´m flying right now with a guy 3 weeks from retirement right now. He´s a pretty good stick. But he is not handling this very well, hates the air I breath just for being younger, and is acting like a child.

 

[pilotyip]

flobgut, I planned on working way pass 60 when I was going to work for ACA in 1996, but the one rule for everyone of 1994, took that option away. So don't give me anyone flying today knew the rule.

 

[General Lee]

flobgut, I planned on working way pass 60 when I was going to work for ACA in 1996, but the one rule for everyone of 1994, took that option away. So don't give me anyone flying today knew the rule.

That is ridiculous. EVERYONE in this business has known about the age 60 rule for airline pilots. You may have flown the part 135 portion of ACA or some other airline, but you knew the part 121 rules. If you did not, you were not paying attention. Regardless, it is dangerous.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[scoreboard]

How about firemen and policemen? Is it unfair to make them retire too before that age? Do you want 64 year old cops running after gang members in NYC? That would be interesting. Bye Bye--General Lee

Nope, but the last time I saw a Captain run was down an isle to get a leftover copy of USA Today, hardly like chasing a crack addict mugger or carrying a passed out smoke inhalation victim down four flights of stairs.

 

[General Lee]

Nope, but the last time I saw a Captain run was down an isle to get a leftover copy of USA Today, hardly like chasing a crack addict mugger or carrying a passed out smoke inhalation victim down four flights of stairs.

So, you totally discount the fact of crossing ten thousand time zones over 30 years as creating dangerous fatigue? Of course you do. You must be new to SWA. Keep doing 6 legs a day for 20 more years, and I bet you will look great and feel great!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[pilotyip]

general lee under 30 seats was schdued 135 service until 1996, you could fly as long as passed a medical. It was changed to 121 and bumped all the over 60 guys out of the cockpit. The oldest 121 pilot retired in 2000 at age 69, grandfathered under the change to 121. If I could have flown beyond 60 at ACA I would taken the job. BTW the comment was everyone knew about this rule for 121, but they were flying 135 and it was forced upon thme because 121 pilots kept crashing.

 

[GCAP]

So, you totally discount the fact of crossing ten thousand time zones over 30 years as creating dangerous fatigue? Of course you do. You must be new to SWA. Keep doing 6 legs a day for 20 more years, and I bet you will look great and feel great!

Bye Bye--General Lee

I discount the time zones and any and all arguments you have. I've met you in ATL and I think I could outfly , outfight, out f----you any day and I'm almost 60!! All of your arguments are pure BS. You are one of the weakwilled sisters of ATL that vote in this POS because you don't have the intestinal fortitude to WALK THE WALK. You need a new hobby.

 

[General Lee]

general lee under 30 seats was schdued 135 service until 1996, you could fly as long as passed a medical. It was changed to 121 and bumped all the over 60 guys out of the cockpit. The oldest 121 pilot retired in 2000 at age 69, grandfathered under the change to 121. If I could have flown beyond 60 at ACA I would taken the job. BTW the comment was everyone knew about this rule for 121, but they were flying 135 and it was forced upon thme because 121 pilots kept crashing.

Yes, I know, I was at Midway Connection in the early 90's and we had some of those guys on our E120s and D228s. I know the rules, and we had some very old retired old pilot engineers (ROPES) flying the 727FE and L1011 FE after age 60 too until we got rid of them. Regardless, we all know the rules and have known them since we got hired. ALPA will fight that rule, and most ALPA members are younger. Heck, we just got rid of 2300 senior pilots here at DL, and that is 2300 fewer votes to try to increase the age limit.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I discount the time zones and any and all arguments you have. I've met you in ATL and I think I could outfly , outfight, out f----you any day and I'm almost 60!! All of your arguments are pure BS. You are one of the weakwilled sisters of ATL that vote in this POS because you don't have the intestinal fortitude to WALK THE WALK. You need a new hobby.

You met me? Really? I don't think so. Outfight me? Oh come on now, especially if you are near 60. No way. And, I will vote no, you can count on that. I also enjoy this board, and I will continue to give my opinions regardless of what an old fart like you says. Get some sleep.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Jim Smyth]

When rules that were put into place no longer apply to the current situation they are changed! Look at all the laywers there are in this country to make sure this continually happens. The rule that was put into place in 1959 no longer applies since people live much longer, are much healthier and have to work longer to get there retirement benefits respectively at 62,65 and 67. The age rule will change whether you like it or not, its just a matter of time. The more airlines that disolve there pension obligation will just strenten the pace at which it gets changed. IMO the younger Pilots would be better off to try to get a gradial phase in of age rather than taking an immediate 5 year hit!