OV-10s in Iraq

[stonewall]

Hey MAGNUM!!​

You don’t need to keep reminding us that you are a super-killing-machine-Viper-death-master. We accept your unmatched prowess with a Sniper Pod. Thank God you haven’t recently felt the need to remind us about your heavy Miller Lite consumption and getting lucky with a couple of fat chicks during your Zoomie years.​

I guess the cumulative combination of intense indoctrination at USAFA and UPT, followed by AD in the USAF, has limited your cognitive capabilities. High intensity, by-the-book indoctrination can have serious detrimental effects on the portion of the brain that controls creative problem solving and non-linear thinking.​

My comments about a Sniper Pod mounted on Jim’s fictitious O/A/C/F-22 were a direct jab at your comments a few months ago regarding the Sniper Pod’s transformation of the AF CAS capability to provide effective supression and support for Grunts.​

No matter how you spin it, regardless of the hot sh*t technology, the AF has neither the culture, the desire, the heart nor the right volume of equipment to properly support the guys on the ground. They are way more concerned with reducing risk for the AF than they are for the guys working at 6 feet AGL.​

Since you like your old posts, go back and read the responses. My opinions regarding CAS have not changed. Neither have yours, it seems, despite direct evidence that you don't know what you are talking about. You are a dinosaur, and you literally have no clue about the current AF commitment to CAS. Further, I said nothing about "transformation." CAS does not need to be transformed. The Sniper Pod, however, WILL enable the AF to do CAS better.

Personal attacks on me do nothing to change the fact that you're simply wrong about this subject.

If you want to talk Sniper and CAS, let's do it. I have direct experience with it (that's not a boast, by the way). I'd like to talk about SEAL Ops sometime...but I guess you'd be the wrong guy to ping, huh?

 

[USMCAirWinger]

I'd like to talk about SEAL Ops sometime...but I guess you'd be the wrong guy to ping, huh?

SHACK!!!

 

[Weasel Keeper]

OV-10s back in the fight...sweet! One bad ass little FAC rig! Oh...are we still talking about the original topic? My bad, sorry for derailing the original derailed topic back to the original...oh nevermind.

Glad we're all on the same team...seriously.

 

[McGillicutty]

No matter how you spin it, regardless of the hot sh*t technology, the AF has neither the culture, the desire, the heart nor the right volume of equipment to properly support the guys on the ground.
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I read this statement and thought to myself, "Who in their right mind would say this ignorant crap?" But then I read the name of the poster: DaveGriffin... you lovable little troll, where would this message board be without you?!

 

[Huggyu2]

Mr Griffin, why do you feel the need to incite folks here? Please give it a rest.

Side note: Bill Andrews got the Air Force Cross for his efforts during The Storm. Paul Johnson, A-10 driver and my UPT tablemate, got the other. He's got some great stories about supporting folks on the ground. I think he would take exception to your comments, sir.

As for the OV-10, Alcohol, Tabacco, and Firearms (BATF) was flying a few back around 1998. Does anyone know if they still have them? If so, are any being flown on the West Coast?

 

[Weasel Keeper]

As for the OV-10, Alcohol, Tabacco, and Firearms (BATF) was flying a few back around 1998. Does anyone know if they still have them? If so, are any being flown on the West Coast?

Possibly. I believe a CAP unit in Oregon or Washington had an OV-10 or two for fire spotting and SAR at least up until a year or two ago (last time I talked to the guy).

If they're bringing them back to service I'm guessing they're in the boneyard.

 

[Pistlpetet]

DoS uses the OV-10D for Drug Spraying in Colombia. There are a few other used out west for fire bombing. There are only a limited number of worthy ones left sitting out in the desert.

The Colombian, Venezualan, Phillipine, Indonesian Air Forces still fly the OV-10. Thailand transfered all their airframes to the PI in 2004.

http://www.ov-10bronco.net/

 

[Gorilla]

I must admit, seeking the OV-10 rather than hogs is a bit baffling to me.

On the OT AF-bashing whine-festival, the AF primary mission has always been control of the airspace, destruction of enemy C&C, followed by battlefield interdiction. This has been a resounding success over the last few decades. Debate all you want about the percentage of CAS, but it does exist and it performs well. The force structure you see was created to deal with powerful enemy air forces and enemy AD forces. Absolutely NO CAS can be conducted without total control of the air, and this requires <gasp> significant quantities of counter-air forces, and aircraft capable of the weasel mission... F-14, 15, 16, 18, 117, B-2.

If our troops were screaming on the radio because they were being cluster-bombed by MiG-27's or SU-25's, they wouldn't be asking for an OV-10, a Harrier, or a Hog, they'd want 15's, 16's, and 22's.

I freely admit in our current super-low-tech combat, a higher percentage might be devoted to CAS, but our force structure MUST stand ready to defeat a heavily armed nation like India, China, or any other nation with significant air power.

 

[Pistlpetet]

All good Points Gorilla.

 

[SIG600]

they wouldn't be asking for an OV-10, a Harrier, or a Hog, they'd want 15's, 16's, and 22's.

You forgot to say Hornet too... just so you know.

 

[spongebob]

Albie,
When an F-15 pilot learns to vis ID a friendly helicopter then they can think of providing decent ground support. In the meantime, the USAF should quit attemting to forsake all weapon systems other than the F-22. I can think of 10 aircraft that need to be replaced before any of our air to air capability but the fighter Mafia running the show is too blinded to see that.

SB

 

[SIG600]

Albie,
When an F-15 pilot learns to vis ID a friendly helicopter then they can think of providing decent ground support. In the meantime, the USAF should quit attemting to forsake all weapon systems other than the F-22. I can think of 10 aircraft that need to be replaced before any of our air to air capability but the fighter Mafia running the show is too blinded to see that.

If you've got access to it... read the Top Gun reports (or any of the other classified info) on Cope India... you'll change your mind. Systems like the F-22 are exactly what we need. Magnum said it best once, I don't want it to be a fair fight.

 

[Russ]

"read the Top Gun reports (or any of the other classified info) on Cope India"

How quick was the AF to get the word out on Cope? No relation to proposed cuts in the number of F22's being considered? Even the Indians were scratching their collective heads over it.

 

[AlbieF15]

SB,

Cheap shot.

I know the guy who led that mission and mis-VID'd the two blackhawks. What you may not know is he was a jump FAC in my OV-10 squadron and was decorated for jumping into Panama in 1989 with the Rangers. He had parchuted and rappelled from blackhawks and had ridden them in combat. He did a combat jump, directed airstrikes in combat with an AC-130, and a bunch of other "hoo-ah" stuff during combat. If any F-15 guy every wanted to support the Army, it would have been THIS guy.

Did he make a horrible mistake? YES. However, if there was every anyone who was in a position to NOT make the mistake, I'd say it was him. So--I look at that whole 94 shootdown as a "by the Grace of God go I..." type deal. We've got a former Mig Killer (actually Mirage Killer) from the Bulldogs on here who posts every now and then--I'd love to hear HIS take on the situation.

What does that have to do with the AF not supporting the Army? The F-22 buy has been halfed, the C-17 and other logistics platforms continue to be purchased, and new tankers are on the horizon. We are slowly replacing some C-130s with C-130Js, although that seems to be a political football too. UAVs are replacing fighters to the point that by 2025 our fighter force will be 1/2-1/3 of its current size. I don't think any "fighter mafia" guys are having much luck right now pushing their agendas, either. Its a tough fiscal enviroment and lots of systems are taking hits.

You cheap shot, however, reeks of the smugness of someone who doesn't know the full story. The AWACS guy got hammered--perhaps the F-15 crew should have had similar scrutiny after the accident. However, to imply the mistake was because the guy "flew F-15s" and therefore didn't understand what a blackhawk looked like only shows your ignorance of the full story.

By the way--I flew up and down the same northern Iraqi valleys many times--doing the very same mission. I've also flown in blackhawks during the Desert Storm winddown. What have you done that makes you such an expert?

 

[Huggyu2]

YGBSM, Spongebob. It's amazing to me you've posted what you did. Now I'm no fan of the F-22, mainly due to it's cost, but that' decision isn't made by Lt Col fighter pilots: it's made by the power players on the East Coast.
Don't try to impugn the skills and abilities of the fighter community, of which you apparently know little. I do not fly fighters, but I worked with some top notch fighter types in PSAB 3 year ago during "The Show". Don't remember their real names, but pilots like "Francis" from the Viper, and "Chairman" from the Eagle. These guys watered my eyes with their dedication and technical knowledge, especially to the KI-CAS mission. I was humbled. If I was in their shoes, I wonder if I could succeed like they did.

So what next? Pick on the C-141 community for the crashes of the T-3, which led its demise? How about badmouthing some C-130 bubbas for hitting Army paratroopers? Or how about slamming the dead U-2 pilot from years back for crashing into the weather shop while doing something stupid and killing 4 Brits? Here's a good one: go tell the Army Apache-types on the "Helicopter" forum that, due to their frat incident, they should start working on their VID abilities before they call themselves good at ground support. Make sure you leave a phone number for them to call and discuss it with you.

I should probably just shut up myself, since you're simply enjoying the fruits of your flamebait. But you owe some folks an apology for your cheap shot.