OV-10s in Iraq

[Weasel Keeper]

As for the OV-10, Alcohol, Tabacco, and Firearms (BATF) was flying a few back around 1998. Does anyone know if they still have them? If so, are any being flown on the West Coast?

Possibly. I believe a CAP unit in Oregon or Washington had an OV-10 or two for fire spotting and SAR at least up until a year or two ago (last time I talked to the guy).

If they're bringing them back to service I'm guessing they're in the boneyard.

 

[Pistlpetet]

DoS uses the OV-10D for Drug Spraying in Colombia. There are a few other used out west for fire bombing. There are only a limited number of worthy ones left sitting out in the desert.

The Colombian, Venezualan, Phillipine, Indonesian Air Forces still fly the OV-10. Thailand transfered all their airframes to the PI in 2004.

http://www.ov-10bronco.net/

 

[Gorilla]

I must admit, seeking the OV-10 rather than hogs is a bit baffling to me.

On the OT AF-bashing whine-festival, the AF primary mission has always been control of the airspace, destruction of enemy C&C, followed by battlefield interdiction. This has been a resounding success over the last few decades. Debate all you want about the percentage of CAS, but it does exist and it performs well. The force structure you see was created to deal with powerful enemy air forces and enemy AD forces. Absolutely NO CAS can be conducted without total control of the air, and this requires <gasp> significant quantities of counter-air forces, and aircraft capable of the weasel mission... F-14, 15, 16, 18, 117, B-2.

If our troops were screaming on the radio because they were being cluster-bombed by MiG-27's or SU-25's, they wouldn't be asking for an OV-10, a Harrier, or a Hog, they'd want 15's, 16's, and 22's.

I freely admit in our current super-low-tech combat, a higher percentage might be devoted to CAS, but our force structure MUST stand ready to defeat a heavily armed nation like India, China, or any other nation with significant air power.

 

[Pistlpetet]

All good Points Gorilla.

 

[SIG600]

they wouldn't be asking for an OV-10, a Harrier, or a Hog, they'd want 15's, 16's, and 22's.

You forgot to say Hornet too... just so you know.

 

[spongebob]

Albie,
When an F-15 pilot learns to vis ID a friendly helicopter then they can think of providing decent ground support. In the meantime, the USAF should quit attemting to forsake all weapon systems other than the F-22. I can think of 10 aircraft that need to be replaced before any of our air to air capability but the fighter Mafia running the show is too blinded to see that.

SB

 

[SIG600]

Albie,
When an F-15 pilot learns to vis ID a friendly helicopter then they can think of providing decent ground support. In the meantime, the USAF should quit attemting to forsake all weapon systems other than the F-22. I can think of 10 aircraft that need to be replaced before any of our air to air capability but the fighter Mafia running the show is too blinded to see that.

If you've got access to it... read the Top Gun reports (or any of the other classified info) on Cope India... you'll change your mind. Systems like the F-22 are exactly what we need. Magnum said it best once, I don't want it to be a fair fight.

 

[Russ]

"read the Top Gun reports (or any of the other classified info) on Cope India"

How quick was the AF to get the word out on Cope? No relation to proposed cuts in the number of F22's being considered? Even the Indians were scratching their collective heads over it.

 

[AlbieF15]

SB,

Cheap shot.

I know the guy who led that mission and mis-VID'd the two blackhawks. What you may not know is he was a jump FAC in my OV-10 squadron and was decorated for jumping into Panama in 1989 with the Rangers. He had parchuted and rappelled from blackhawks and had ridden them in combat. He did a combat jump, directed airstrikes in combat with an AC-130, and a bunch of other "hoo-ah" stuff during combat. If any F-15 guy every wanted to support the Army, it would have been THIS guy.

Did he make a horrible mistake? YES. However, if there was every anyone who was in a position to NOT make the mistake, I'd say it was him. So--I look at that whole 94 shootdown as a "by the Grace of God go I..." type deal. We've got a former Mig Killer (actually Mirage Killer) from the Bulldogs on here who posts every now and then--I'd love to hear HIS take on the situation.

What does that have to do with the AF not supporting the Army? The F-22 buy has been halfed, the C-17 and other logistics platforms continue to be purchased, and new tankers are on the horizon. We are slowly replacing some C-130s with C-130Js, although that seems to be a political football too. UAVs are replacing fighters to the point that by 2025 our fighter force will be 1/2-1/3 of its current size. I don't think any "fighter mafia" guys are having much luck right now pushing their agendas, either. Its a tough fiscal enviroment and lots of systems are taking hits.

You cheap shot, however, reeks of the smugness of someone who doesn't know the full story. The AWACS guy got hammered--perhaps the F-15 crew should have had similar scrutiny after the accident. However, to imply the mistake was because the guy "flew F-15s" and therefore didn't understand what a blackhawk looked like only shows your ignorance of the full story.

By the way--I flew up and down the same northern Iraqi valleys many times--doing the very same mission. I've also flown in blackhawks during the Desert Storm winddown. What have you done that makes you such an expert?

 

[Huggyu2]

YGBSM, Spongebob. It's amazing to me you've posted what you did. Now I'm no fan of the F-22, mainly due to it's cost, but that' decision isn't made by Lt Col fighter pilots: it's made by the power players on the East Coast.
Don't try to impugn the skills and abilities of the fighter community, of which you apparently know little. I do not fly fighters, but I worked with some top notch fighter types in PSAB 3 year ago during "The Show". Don't remember their real names, but pilots like "Francis" from the Viper, and "Chairman" from the Eagle. These guys watered my eyes with their dedication and technical knowledge, especially to the KI-CAS mission. I was humbled. If I was in their shoes, I wonder if I could succeed like they did.

So what next? Pick on the C-141 community for the crashes of the T-3, which led its demise? How about badmouthing some C-130 bubbas for hitting Army paratroopers? Or how about slamming the dead U-2 pilot from years back for crashing into the weather shop while doing something stupid and killing 4 Brits? Here's a good one: go tell the Army Apache-types on the "Helicopter" forum that, due to their frat incident, they should start working on their VID abilities before they call themselves good at ground support. Make sure you leave a phone number for them to call and discuss it with you.

I should probably just shut up myself, since you're simply enjoying the fruits of your flamebait. But you owe some folks an apology for your cheap shot.

 

[McGillicutty]

Yeah, I'm almost positive that Dave and SB have boners right now.

 

[pilotyip]

OV-10's were withdrawn from Vietnam towards end because of improvement in portable anti-aircraft weapons by the NVA. Reference "Black Ponies" the story of VAL-4

 

[Pistlpetet]

OV-10's were withdrawn from Vietnam towards end because of improvement in portable anti-aircraft weapons by the NVA. Reference "Black Ponies" the story of VAL-4

For that snap shot of time it might have meant something, but I don't see how that relates to the proposal of this thread. There were SA-7,14s in DS/DS where the broncos flew (Where more modern aircraft got zapped also). Not to mention the fact that there are Military FW aircraft flying around Iraq and AFG today with out any ASE gear on board. All of which is probably less probable then being hit by LMG, AK, RPG in a Helicopter.

 

[Gorilla]

I think the ability of the OV-10 to contribute is very theater and threat dependent, much like the AC-130. The Spectre is an amazing platform, but cannot operate unless the air defenses in the area are pretty low. Consider SEA - as AD went up, the attacking aircraft had to be faster, more armored, or both. Beat the enemy AD down, you can send in the spectres, the sandies, the O1's, and the broncos.

These aircraft did not operate over Hanoi, and they couldn't operate over Iran until the fast movers and the stealth smack down the SAM sites, and the MANPAD and AAA threat is reduced.

I think the OV-10 could contribute nicely to Iraq and Afghanistan, acting as a spotter, liason, maybe a lasing platform, and relaying target GPS coords.

 

[Birdstrike]

No one's mentioned UAVs yet in the context of the mission quoted in the article, "...would be used to augment surveillance of roads in Iraq..." I'm not up on UAV capabilities or the selection criteria for using them over a manned aircraft. Was wondering why/ why not they might not be the preferred platform in this case, considering age, risks, costs, etc of using other assets.

 

[SIG600]

I think the OV-10 could contribute nicely to Iraq and Afghanistan, acting as a spotter, liason, maybe a lasing platform, and relaying target GPS coords.

I was thinking the same thing, as well as FAC-A and a few others, but like you and Albie aluded too... how long before an OV-10 gets knocked down by an IR MANPAD? With the current state of things (from what I can guess) I can't imagine it would be all that hard to sneak one into town, and launch it from a roof top.

 

[stearmann4]

DaveGriffin,

I have spent the last 15 minutes sifting through the thread trying to make sense of your posts. Wanna know why I can't seem to focus? I've been mezmerized trying to figure out why you have a SEAL Trident as your avatar? You can't possibly be that dumb. Although, the content of your posts would imply otherwise. Be aware of your audience on here, there's alot of young, inquisitive kids, but there's also a good number of guys who have walked the mile.

If I'm in error, please fill me in on the broad spectrum of your experiences that warrant you associating yourself with the Trident. Otherwise change it, because there's about 3 websites close by of guys who absolutely make it their daily duty to expose you as the jackhole you appear to be.

Mike-
BUD/s Class 197, SEAL Team ONE, 94-02, current Army aviator.

P.S. If they brought back OV-10s, OV-1s, I'd stay for 30!

 

[USMCAirWinger]

DaveGriffin,


If I'm in error, please fill me in on the broad spectrum of your experiences that warrant you associating yourself with the Trident. Otherwise change it, because there's about 3 websites close by of guys who absolutely make it their daily duty to expose you as the jackhole you appear to be.

Mike-
BUD/s Class 197, SEAL Team ONE, 94-02, current Army aviator.

P.S. If they brought back OV-10s, OV-1s, I'd stay for 30!

About fooking time. I though DaveGriffin was a fake from the time I first read his posts.

 

[Pistlpetet]

Just for the record,

A couple of months ago I got DaveGriffin's "Creds", and ran them through a SEAL with the "List". Through a few different PMs I baited him for Class #, Rank, SEAL assignment, Age, and current place of residence. ALL checked out clean and accurate through the master list.

Either he did a good job stealing someones Identity, or he is REAL. In cyberspace we probably will never know.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Back on tropic.

I asked a buddy who is working on COIN issues for the 3rdMAW. The push for the return of OV-10's comes from the small unit level. The Lt's and Capt's in the field aren't getting the dope they need from the UAV assets. They want a "live" set of eyes on their patrol/convoy routes...preferably with a native-speaking AO onboard.

The pitch is to modify the aircraft with bigger motors and a _____ IR system (not being cute...I just didn't recognize the acronym), and fly them in hot areas. The "selling point" is that the aircraft would eventually be turned-over to the new Iraqi Air Force (like our Air Force, but with smaller O-Clubs and golf courses) as a "safe" aircraft for them to operate.

The solution to the PGM issue is to have UAV assets with PGM's loitering in the area and use the Bronco's to laze targets.