Our "Team" leader out to lunch

[jetwash]

I guess MS is feeling the heat, before he just sent the stooges to hold the meetings now he is going.

I smell desperation.

 

[SilverSurfer]

No appetite for BullSh!t

I just don't know what to say to you Silver. It's like you didn't read or comprehend his email at all. If you think that there are "lies, misrepresentaions, and dishonest practices", this is your chance to communicate them to management. If there are none of these items (you haven't listed any here), than don't bother. Before you label me as a FUD, or scab, or troll, or whatever else you guys use, just try to look at it objectively and without all that managment hate that usually accompanies unions. I'm not defending managment or the union, just trying to shed a different light on it. I am not a union fan but I do read and try to understand thier point of view because that's the most important thing in a disagreement, communication. I think you meeting with "M" would be a good thing, maybe something good would come of it. With respect, Thank you.

Skanza,

I did read "M"'s message very carefully. Let me tell you what I read from it.

First and foremost, desperation. After our Union leadership requested that our pilots boycott these management meetings, management is now desperate to show that they have not lost complete control of the pilots. Brining the CEO to DFW to hold this propaganda meeting was a last ditch attempt to be able to prove they still have some level of support from us pilots. Desperation to try and find some way to drive a wedge in to the solidarity of the pilots because he knows that its that solidarity that will ultimately defeat him and his cronies.

As far as looking at his meeting as a opportunity to confront the less then truthful statements of "M" and his management colleagues, we have done that. When they stand in meetings in DFW, CGF, PBI and other venues to tell our pilots that it is the Union that does not want to meet on a more aggressive schedule, its the Union that is getting in the way of negotiations progressing, and we confront these lies, "M"'s bullsh!t commandos just deny thats what was said. When they tell us that NJ, FJ, and CS aren't really growing, they are not really making profits, they are not adding aircraft and pilots, and we call Bullsh!t they shrug their shoulders and just expect you to believe it.

"M" has proven again and again that he has no respect for the pilots of Floptions and does not appreciate what we do for this company. I'll take that one step farther, "M" has demonstrated a open hostility for pilots throughout his carrier. This has been the case from the day he took over as Interim CEO and his actions and the actions of his "management team" are directly responsible for the pilots of Floptions voting for Union representation.

The only thing that I want from "M" is his signature on a contract. Anything else he has to say is meaningless and without value because whatever he says today he can change his mind tomorrow or as has been the case in the past just deny that he ever said it.

No Skanza, with all due respect, "M" and his band of boys have nothing that I care to hear because I intently dislike knowing that someone is intentionally telling me a lie.

Regards:beer:

 

[SilverSurfer]

Please Stop

PLEASE STOP
​

OK if yall must debate with this poser POS Bob/B19 please help us all out by not re-quoting his BULLSH!T. For those of us that have blocked his post, you using his quotes defeats the the reason we have blocked him and clutters the threads with his worthless BS.

Your consideration would be appreciated.:beer: ​

 

[FracMonkey]

I agree Silver. This is another beautiful thread shot to he!! because bob showed up. uke:

 

[Freedom]

Hey Bob/B19

How does it feel to be Failing your Job for the 2nd time?

First time was when you failed to stop the Union Vote, failing miserably with a landslide 2 of every 3 Pilots voting for the Union.

And Now, you sold your Boss Sh!tfinger that you could break the Union, and prevent the Pilots from coming together as One.

I'd say only 2 Pilots showing up to your Boss' meeting in Dallas proves that you have failed again.

If Sh!tfinger doesn't go first, you are sure to go soon. Remember the "Peace Man," our former Director of Human Resources who mysteriously left for Personal Reasons one month after the Union was voted in?

Remember Bill Boisture of NetJets going away a month after Contract ratification?

If Sh!tfinger is feeling his job status might be in Jeopardy due to the Union's gains, he is going to try to sacrifice someone to save his own neck. That's what cowards do Bob, but you should know all about that. Wonder how secure Mikey is feeling right about now with 2 suck ups being the only Pilots to show up to his meeting?

Better watch your back Bob. Sh!tfinger has no loyalty to anyone but himself. If he can sell to HIG that the Pilots are forcing a Contract due to your multiple failures and insulate himself in the process, you are gone you Scab.

Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy.

Freedom is Not Free.

 

[nomore]

"M" sleep

Do you think "M" stayed at the Homewood last night? Do you think he sat in the back of an RJ to get there? I don't know but given his history I'm guessing not. That's the TEAM approach at work at options. YOU take one for the TEAM I'm watching out for myself.

 

[1po'dpilot]

Try again SCAB. I will say again go save the 121 carriers in the process of organizing from the union! That is your supposed place of employment (maybe in your wet dreams) I would think you might have a vested interest in seeing that you could prevent a union at a 121 carrier. There is already a union at FLOPS and despite the tactics you try it isn't going anywhere. Scab/Bob/Babbling Bob, whichever you prefer face it youve failed and soon you will be on the street kicked to the curb.

 

[1folinepilot]

I guess MS is feeling the heat, before he just sent the stooges to hold the meetings now he is going.

I smell desperation.

Does anybody think Michael will fly to Dallas again to be snubbed by the next class as well, or will he send one of his stooges instead?

 

[realityman]

FLOPS pilots, you're on the right track!! The best, and most powerful, message you can send to management is your silence. Let your elected leaders speak for you now. That's what you elected them to do.

When negotiations at NJA were getting pretty contentious, our management tried very similar tactics. What they're trying to accomplish with these meetings, is basically to negotiate with all of you individually, rather than as a unified group. If they want to talk seriously, stay away from these meetings and let your elected leaders do the work. As someone else earlier in this thread mentioned, how far did talking directly to management before get you?

Bill Boisture and Richard Santulli would regularly come into company recurrent classes and try to feed us their lines of BS. We all had our union shirts on (1108 had nice polos made up for everyone. EVERY LAST PERSON in the class was wearing it on the days that Boisture and Santulli were coming in) and after they finished their little talk, they'd ask if anyone had any questions. And for class after class, not one single person would ask anything. They were continually met with silence and a sea of 1108 shirts.

The message sent: We're not buying your lies and BS. You wanna talk? Our leaders stand ready to negotiate any time you are.

My hat's off to you folks for taking the first truly difficult steps in what will be a hard battle. NOW YOU'RE STARTING TO ACT LIKE A UNIFIED GROUP!!!

 

[SilverSurfer]

The rest of the story

"M" had his meeting tonight in Dallas. There were 30 pilots and a dozen mechanics in Dallas. 2 pilots went, Jody Leverknight and Tom Parks were in attendance. What a great turnout.

The rest of the story about "M"'s failed propaganda session in DFW last night.

There were 3 not 2 pilots there in attendance, the 2 named above and another with the initials CG. "M" held court with his 3 hungry little birds for nearly 2 hr before emerging into the lobby where approximately 30 Mechanics and pilots were sitting and having the last of the free beer. "M" made the rounds of the room speaking briefly to the MX guys and then the pilots. He asked our pilots in the lobby if they had any questions and did not receive a single response and promptly left with a swish.

Gents I have to tell you that hearing how our pilots had the solidarity to stand together and send "M" and the rest of management this strong message really makes me feel like we will win this war. With this kind of spirit of solidarity we will be successful at negotiating a good first contract that we will all be proud of. Some might ask what message are you talking about? The message is that we will not be fractured, we will not be lied to, that we are determined as a group with one mind and one voice to achieve a contract at Floptions regardless of the actions of management. A message that nothing management has to say short of, show me where to sign, is of any value or interest to us.

All of you that have been involved in this process remember last night it will mark a significant milestone in the spirit and solidarity of the pilots of Flight Options.

Congratulations to all you pilots in DFW that had the stones to stand together and say no to "M".:beer:

 

[doh]

Skanza, did your negotiators survey the pilot group before they started negotiations? If they did not, then meeting with management seperately is a good idea. If however, they did survey the pilot group prior to negotiations (and I strongly suspect they did), then meeting with management seperate from negotiations is the worst idea! Your negotiating team has access to propriatary information that they may not legally divulge to you. Management has made them sign a legally binding agreement not to divulge this information. Discussing your contract without that information puts you and the pilot group as a whole at a severe disadvantage. Management will only exploit your lack of knowledge. Management is well aware of what your group expects. Your negotiating team has made your expectations crystal clear. What this manager is attempting to do is cause a rift between pilots. He is hoping to cause chaos so that the pilots as a group will lose faith in their representatives. If that happens, the pilot group is much more likely to ratify a substandard pwa (pilot working agreement) because they no longer trust their negotiating team to produce an acceptable result. Like I said, a very bad idea to meet outside of negotiations. By the way, I'm not a huge fan of unions myself. But once you have one, don't be obstructionist. After all, the majority has ruled.

 

[sky4]

Dfw

I think everyone at FLOPS knows Jody's position at this company as a ground inst. for FLOPS at Simuflt and a line pilot. I for one know Jody backs the union 100% and wants nothing but the best for us, so lets give her a little slack on this, I bet she had her hands tied. The other one or two I can not speak for.

BTW, There was no reason to post names here, we don't need to turn anyone away.

Sky

 

[dime line]

I think everyone at FLOPS knows Jody's position at this company as a ground inst. for FLOPS at Simuflt and a line pilot. I for one know

Jody backs the union 100%

and wants nothing but the best for us, so lets give her a little slack on this, I bet she had her hands tied. The other one or two I can not speak for.

BTW, There was no reason to post names here, we don't need to turn anyone away.

Sky

Your kidding right?

 

[Hobbes]

CG's attendance could have just been a faux pas...

Oh, I just couldn't resist that.

 

[jetwash]

I do know that the other pilot TP attends the meetings in DAL all the time. Even thought he is signed up on the union board his heart is not into it. He still works OT. As a matter of fact he was exposed on this site a few months ago when someone posted the names and then got bent out of shape.

He has probably only a year or two until he retires and could care less for the other pilots who will be here after he goes. So I could care less if his feelings are hurt because everyone know what type of person he is.

 

[nomore]

Message from Nomore

I was going to let everyone know who CG was since I didn't mention it in my earlier post but then I thought shoot everyone knows it's Carlos. So I changed my mind.



N

 

[1folinepilot]

The sad truth is that Michael flew back to CGF to brag and gloat to his underlings and his new bosses at HIG that his meeting in Dallas was an overwhelming success. It seems that all that attended gave him a 100% approval rating, supported his go-forward plan and see him as a true visionary to continue to lead Options into the future!

Think about it! How is it any different than any other "metric" that he reports?

THE IBT1108 SPEAKS FOR ME!

 

[flydog1]

I think everyone at FLOPS knows Jody's position at this company as a ground inst. for FLOPS at Simuflt and a line pilot. I for one know Jody backs the union 100% and wants nothing but the best for us, so lets give her a little slack on this, I bet she had her hands tied. The other one or two I can not speak for.

BTW, There was no reason to post names here, we don't need to turn anyone away.

Sky

I would have to agree Sky on this one and no need to post names..I was going to say something but glad someone else spoke up before I got to this thread. I know first had that if I had to go to the aiport and pick MS up to goto the homewood suites, I would feel pretty obligated to going to the meeting. Especially if you had to take him back! Even though I'm sure His info is nothing new we need to hear.
Its great to hear that everyone was in the lobby during his meeting But we all have a job to do....our job? To get the industry standard contract that we deserve.

 

[Helmsalee]

Maybe if the union gets a decent contract here, this may be the next Netjets. And those who are in the pipeline will be glad they got in ahead of the rush. A few years ago NJ was not considered a great place to be, but things have changed.

 

[Whoosh!]

Maybe if the union gets a decent contract here, this may be the next Netjets. And those who are in the pipeline will be glad they got in ahead of the rush. A few years ago NJ was not considered a great place to be, but things have changed.

Forgive me but, this seems kind of nieve. FLOPS is so far behind the rest of the industry it's stupid. Four fractional companies are out there- FLOPS only has 12% of the market now, hasn't made any effort to keep up with pilot compensation in the rest of the industry, continues to lose pilots at an alarming rate, etc. A pilot contract would help but the culture created by the arrogant/egotistical/unethical management is really the problem. The dynamic at NetJets was pretty different during their struggle- different ownership, financial situation, market conditions, etc. NetJets made in excess of $300M last year. Raytheon pretty much gave FLOPS to HIG for pennies. Would probably take a miracle at this point to turn Options around.

Unfortunately, most of the hope amongst the pilot group that things will get better roots back to days when we were growing, buying airplanes, hiring like crazy, had the best pay in the industry, etc.- glamour. It's slowly but steadily come down from there and gotten worse while the other companies have continued to grow. Hard for most of us to believe this happened (which has led to much of the mistrust of what mgmt says) but if you told any one of us 6 years ago that this is what the company would have looked like now, we would have certainly bailed. It's hard to accept the loss after all this time and it's happened slowly so most guys just continue to hang on hoping....