Ouch!

[Just Peachy]

Just because a person has low time means they do not know anything about unions? Maybe they got a late start in aviation and had plenty of experience with unions in other work industries.
You claim to have 25,000 hours, so that makes you an expert huh? No that just means you are some old turd that thinks they know it all. I fly with idiots like you all time and it just amazes me what kind of crap you guys pull.
Yes I am pro-union, so do not go down that road.

Well what would you think with a statement like " Friends don't let friends vote UNION---Just Say NO!!!!!" at the bottom of their by-line ???

AND, yes, a low time pilot may or may not know about unions, again, your by-line sez it all.

AND.. after being in aviation 38 years, I do have over 25,000 accident free hours along with 9 type ratings and have built and flown 2 different aircraft, am a EAA Tech and Flt. advisor and a masters degree in Aeronautics .

AND, probably know more about aviation than you've forgotten.

But dont worry about it, you will get to display some ofyour superior skill and cunning during some upcoming aviation event that youve gotten yourself into.

 

[Ultra Grump]

AND, probably know more about aviation than you've forgotten.

I think you mean, "I've probably forgotten more about aviation than you'll ever know."

 

[CL300Pilot]

I agree with Diesel.........

One should never attempt to second guess a pilot in any instance without knowing all of the details. Just remember, it could have been you.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Was that the case in which the controller didnt realize an airplane landed short and one or two more airplanes landed on the same runway after the 727?

Yes, it was that case. I believe a United plane landed over the top of them and told the tower about the 727 in the mud.

That was back in 1998 wasn't it? 727 doing some fancy auto pilot coupled approach and something went wrong. It was a hell of a thing to see in the mud. 14R I believe...

As it was explained to me at the time (I worked some with the safety group at AA at that time), the autopilot in that particular plane didn't de-sensitize, which led to a fairly rapid pitchdown just short of touchdown. The crew got the nose up but couldn't arrest the sink rate. Apparently, the autopilot was supposed to sense passing the middle marker and it didn't happen.

 

[Iam3rd]

Well what would you think with a statement like " Friends don't let friends vote UNION---Just Say NO!!!!!" at the bottom of their by-line ???

AND, yes, a low time pilot may or may not know about unions, again, your by-line sez it all.

AND.. after being in aviation 38 years, I do have over 25,000 accident free hours along with 9 type ratings and have built and flown 2 different aircraft, am a EAA Tech and Flt. advisor and a masters degree in Aeronautics .

AND, probably know more about aviation than you've forgotten.

But dont worry about it, you will get to display some ofyour superior skill and cunning during some upcoming aviation event that youve gotten yourself into.

Where is your shuttle time? I don't see it listed.

 

[Iam3rd]

Well what would you think with a statement like " Friends don't let friends vote UNION---Just Say NO!!!!!" at the bottom of their by-line ???

AND, yes, a low time pilot may or may not know about unions, again, your by-line sez it all.

AND.. after being in aviation 38 years, I do have over 25,000 accident free hours along with 9 type ratings and have built and flown 2 different aircraft, am a EAA Tech and Flt. advisor and a masters degree in Aeronautics .

AND, probably know more about aviation than you've forgotten.

But dont worry about it, you will get to display some ofyour superior skill and cunning during some upcoming aviation event that youve gotten yourself into.

I just think that at one time there was a time and a place for a union...which was many years ago. But not any more. I have just seen too many times where a company had to fold because they were not able to make the deep changes that were needed to turn the company around. All because of a union contract. And then the workers due to pride or what ever reasons were not willing to concede anything either so the company just ends up folding or taking much longer to turn around.

Then there is the issue of where the union does not always have the best interest of its members in mind. Especially when a contract is voted on and approved by its members, but then the union officers due to their own interests, choose not to allow the contract to go forward. So what kind of representation is that? This actually happened believe it or not.

I just think that if a person does not like the conditions of where they work then they should go find a better job somewhere else. There are many out there. If a person owns a company they should be able to do with it what ever they want. Not be pushed around by its employees. That owner will finally get the message when he can't keep any employees. But at least he has the freedom to make the changes on his own because its his company.

I just think that a union can sink a company faster than a bad economy. I know that every one does not agree with me and that is the great thing about this country. That we can all have the freedom to have an opinion and the freedom to say what ever we want to say. But then there are those of you on here that would probably say you believe the same thing about those freedoms, but then as soon as someone says something that you don't agree with you pretty much cuss them out and rip them a new one. ie. the posts that are going to follow this one.

But that all I got to say about that....

 

[Humphreybogart]

after being in aviation 38 years, I do have over 25,000 accident free hours along with 9 type ratings and have built and flown 2 different aircraft, am a EAA Tech and Flt. advisor and a masters degree in Aeronautics .

Man, you are my HERO! But it just goes to show you that you don't need much flying time to know that aviation unions (or truckers unions that pretend to be aviation unions) suk.

 

[Dep676]

Well what would you think with a statement like " Friends don't let friends vote UNION---Just Say NO!!!!!" at the bottom of their by-line ???

AND, yes, a low time pilot may or may not know about unions, again, your by-line sez it all.

AND.. after being in aviation 38 years, I do have over 25,000 accident free hours along with 9 type ratings and have built and flown 2 different aircraft, am a EAA Tech and Flt. advisor and a masters degree in Aeronautics .

AND, probably know more about aviation than you've forgotten.

But dont worry about it, you will get to display some ofyour superior skill and cunning during some upcoming aviation event that youve gotten yourself into.

Well with all your superior education you think you could read what I quoted from you in the first place. Read again I quoted the part where you said what would a 2600 hour pilot know about unions.

You never mentioned his signature line about friends and unions.

Oh yeah nice grammar for someone that has a Masters too.

You say you built two airplanes. That nice. Bill Clinton was elected President twice. That does not make him a expert in being a President, far from it. Just look at the road he took us down.

Come back and talk when you can read my post correctly. Might just be a sign of that old age setting in. You know you can loose your medical for that kind of sickness.

 

[Iam3rd]

Man, you are my HERO! But it just goes to show you that you don't need much flying time to know that aviation unions (or truckers unions that pretend to be aviation unions) suk.

There is a trucking company that use to be here in Charlotte. The truckers decided they were going to unionize. The owner told them if they did he was going to shut the company down and sell off all its assets. The truckers did not believe him and unionized. Within 2 weeks he had done what he said he was going to do and all of those truckers were without a job.

You hate to see all those guys loose their jobs, but its his company and he can do whatever he wants to do.

 

[fischman]

I just think that at one time there was a time and a place for a union...which was many years ago. But not any more. I have just seen too many times where a company had to fold because they were not able to make the deep changes that were needed to turn the company around. All because of a union contract. And then the workers due to pride or what ever reasons were not willing to concede anything either so the company just ends up folding or taking much longer to turn around.

Then there is the issue of where the union does not always have the best interest of its members in mind. Especially when a contract is voted on and approved by its members, but then the union officers due to their own interests, choose not to allow the contract to go forward. So what kind of representation is that? This actually happened believe it or not.

I just think that if a person does not like the conditions of where they work then they should go find a better job somewhere else. There are many out there. If a person owns a company they should be able to do with it what ever they want. Not be pushed around by its employees. That owner will finally get the message when he can't keep any employees. But at least he has the freedom to make the changes on his own because its his company.

I just think that a union can sink a company faster than a bad economy. I know that every one does not agree with me and that is the great thing about this country. That we can all have the freedom to have an opinion and the freedom to say what ever we want to say. But then there are those of you on here that would probably say you believe the same thing about those freedoms, but then as soon as someone says something that you don't agree with you pretty much cuss them out and rip them a new one. ie. the posts that are going to follow this one.

But that all I got to say about that....

I am trying to not punch a hole in the wall. :angryfire If you actually believe that garble, you are a truly uneducated closed minded fool. I pity you.

First off. Unions have done more for safety in this country than any other entity.

Secondly. Any unionized company that went belly up is not the fault of the unions. It is the fault of piss-poor management.

Thirdly. You feel that if a person owns a company he should be able to do whatever he/she wants??? Are you kidding me??? Does the employee have the right to a safe, stable, harassment free workplace? Doesn't the employee have a right to fight for his career? (I'll answer the question for you. We do.)

Fourthly. You are partially correct. A union CAN bring a company to its knees. They can also be their greatest strength. In 2005 NJA had their worst year ever. In 2006 NJA enjoyed record profits.

You tell me what the difference was?

 

[Dep676]

As far as the 72 in ORD, it did land short and then bounce to the runway and settle off to the side. The tower did in-fact let two airplanes land on the same runway. One aircraft landed and taxied in and the other did touch down but went around. It was an airport vehicle that discovered the AA flight on the side of the runway.

The FO was PF until they reached min's and then the captain took over, per company policy. It was still coupled when the captain became PF. It began to sink below GS, the FE noticed and the captain tried to apply power and that is when the plane struck the ground. There was a sound on the cockpit voice recorder that sounded like the AP being disconnected but the captain does not recall disconnected it. One thought was that he bumped in when he took control on the aircraft from the FO.

The autopilot was timed for a slower approach speed but they came out with a new procedure to fly faster and never adjusted the AP. So that could have been one cause of the accident. I do not recall what the FAA actually came up with after the investigation.

I do know that other aircraft had reported discrepanies with that approach. The FAA did functional tests after the accident and found no interference from anything. There was a TV station close by that they thought might have caused a false signal. There was no interference from that found either.

 

[Iam3rd]

Ya know it took only five min. for my point to be proven.

I will even go so far as to say that its not the union itself that I have an issue with. Its the attitude that the union expresses. The union feels that it actually has more authority within the company than the people who run it. And you just proved it by your comment by saying "A union can bring a company to its knees."

And don't get be wrong, I do agree with you on some of your points with regards to safety and harassment, but its not the job of a union to take care of that. There are actually laws for those things believe it or not. But I am sure that you feel the union even has as much power as the govt. too and thats what you were refering to.

 

[walshsfly]

I am trying to not punch a hole in the wall. :angryfire If you actually believe that garble, you are a truly uneducated closed minded fool. I pity you.

First off. Unions have done more for safety in this country than any other entity.

Secondly. Any unionized company that went belly up is not the fault of the unions. It is the fault of piss-poor management.

Thirdly. You feel that if a person owns a company he should be able to do whatever he/she wants??? Are you kidding me??? Does the employee have the right to a safe, stable, harassment free workplace? Doesn't the employee have a right to fight for his career? (I'll answer the question for you. We do.)

Fourthly. You are partially correct. A union CAN bring a company to its knees. They can also be their greatest strength. In 2005 NJA had their worst year ever. In 2006 NJA enjoyed record profits.

You tell me what the difference was?

First: Its unions that make airlines hire 600 and 1 wonder kids. Is that safe?

Second: Yes and No, Sometimes its the over paying of union employees that make companies fail. 300k a year for a guy that works one week a month, even though its my profession I find that absurd.

Third: Just imagine its your company what would you do?

Fourth: Prove it.

Last: Use your head to hit the wall it might help you out.

 

[Iam3rd]

Well said Walsh

 

[Iam3rd]

Also remember it was the unions that were so against Airbus coming out with a 2 member crew and doing away with the FE. It was going to make the cockpit more effecient and cheaper for airlines. This move was not going to cause anyone to get fired or layed off. But the unions knew it was better to have 3 in the cockpit rather than 2 because it meant more union members therefor more union dues and more power.

So once again they were looking out for their own interest, not the interest of the company as a whole.

 

[fischman]

First: Its unions that make airlines hire 600 and 1 wonder kids. Is that safe?

Second: Yes and No, Sometimes its the over paying of union employees that make companies fail. 300k a year for a guy that works one week a month, even though its my profession I find that absurd.

Third: Just imagine its your company what would you do?

Fourth: Prove it.

Last: Use your head to hit the wall it might help you out.

First: How are unions making airlines hire 600/1 riddle wonder kids? The company is the one with the low standards. The unions provide protection to these kids who will do anything to fly a jet.

Second: The company agrees to the work rules and pay. If they can't afford it, they shouldn't sign it.

Third: I'd get rid of the crew food menus. Seriously, I'm a pilot, not a manager. I care about fair work rules, good pay, time with my kids, and management complying with the contract THEY agreed to.

Fourth: What more proof do you want?

 

[fischman]

Ya know it took only five min. for my point to be proven.

I will even go so far as to say that its not the union itself that I have an issue with. Its the attitude that the union expresses. The union feels that it actually has more authority within the company than the people who run it. And you just proved it by your comment by saying "A union can bring a company to its knees."

And don't get be wrong, I do agree with you on some of your points with regards to safety and harassment, but its not the job of a union to take care of that. There are actually laws for those things believe it or not. But I am sure that you feel the union even has as much power as the govt. too and thats what you were refering to.

You don't get it. It IS the job of the union to protect the members. That is the WHOLE point of unions.

And yes. "A union can bring a company to its knees."

Your welcome for the pay raise.:erm:

 

[Iam3rd]

First: How are unions making airlines hire 600/1 riddle wonder kids? The company is the one with the low standards. The unions provide protection to these kids who will do anything to fly a jet.

Second: The company agrees to the work rules and pay. If they can't afford it, they shouldn't sign it.

Third: I'd get rid of the crew food menus. Seriously, I'm a pilot, not a manager. I care about fair work rules, good pay, time with my kids, and management complying with the contract THEY agreed to.

Fourth: What more proof do you want?

First: If a company wants to have low standards, so be it. They just won't be around long probably due to their safety record. I am sure if you asked the kids they would say they don't need protecting. They left their parents a long time ago.

Second: Thats right I forgot, the union brought them to their knees.

Third: I think its time for the company to get some knee pads because once again the union had them at their knees I am sure.

 

[fischman]

First: If a company wants to have low standards, so be it. They just won't be around long probably due to their safety record. I am sure if you asked the kids they would say they don't need protecting. They left their parents a long time ago.

Second: Thats right I forgot, the union brought them to their knees.

Third: I think its time for the company to get some knee pads because once again the union had them at their knees I am sure.

I'm glad we're at an agreement. Now I'll hold you to it.

 

[Iam3rd]

But you can speak louder to a company by just going somewhere else to work. Work for a company that does not have to be brought to its knees to treat its employees right. Do you really want to work for a company like that?