Open Letter to B19

[bchjetdrvr]

Why are you acting like a thug? Did I ever say Flight Options is a great place to work? Did I ever say that unions where never needed? I didn't say that. But you went a long ways towards proving my point.

Some of your gripes sound a lot like a 5 year old that had his candy stolen at school. Grow up. Ya, Options sucks. However, enough of that pilot group has come on this board (and others), and acted the way you just did, that certain companies (Flex for one) that don't want anything to do with an Options pilot. So tone it down. Don't act like a cry baby.

BTW, a point of fact, Doctors do have a type of recurrent training. You don't really think the government would let them go to school once and never again do you?

KSU,


Now I know your managament. Better lay off the cool-aid a little. So which are my gripes sounding like a 5 yr old. Would like to know where you draw the line on managements behavior.

Better lay off the cool-aid a little. So you say that complaining about those issues (Illegal behavior, pilot duty time abuse, increase medical costs with decrease in benefits, favortism of incompetent pilots, pencil whipping mx, lowest paid wages, stalling contract negotiations, lowered qol on the road, random pilot firings - is in your eyes acting like a 5 yr old?

Sure would hate to see what you think are valid arguable points.

PS- Get your facts straight before you open the hole again.

http://www.psychlaws.org/GeneralResources/article12.htm

""Critics say the current system of continuing medical education, or CME, is not enforced rigorously enough to keep doctors up to date. Moreover, they say, doctors are not continually required to demonstrate their competence.
"Everyone assumes that we're regularly tested, and that's just not true. There is more regulation of plumbers in the U.S. than psychiatrists," said Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, a research psychiatrist and president of the Treatment Advocacy Center in Arlington.""

---------------

Many different type of doctors aren't required to do much after they are licensed. Varies state to state.

Who's running the show with pilot currency - oh yeah the FEDS.

"If doctors pass their initial exam and continue paying their dues, they're licensed for life."

 

[B19 Flyer]

Better lay off the cool-aid a little. So you say that complaining about those issues (Illegal behavior, pilot duty time abuse, increase medical costs with decrease in benefits, favortism of incompetent pilots, pencil whipping mx, lowest paid wages, stalling contract negotiations, lowered qol on the road, random pilot firings - is in your eyes acting like a 5 yr old?

Absolutely.

"Illegal behavior, pilot duty time abuse" is subjective to your own personal opinion because it needs to be documented. If it's true, then the feds will identify it. Same with the pencil whipping of mx. You think it's true, identify it and report it to the feds. My guess is that it's subjective and there really isn't anything wrong with it.

As long as your 66% chose to be represented, then your union MUST have informed you that it's highly unlikely ANY changes to wages or benefits would be made while a CBA was being negotiated. Get over it and accept it as part of the process. All of you could be looking at another couple of years of it. There is no stalling. It's a classic part of negotiations that the union is looking for unreasonable demands.

You asked for it and you got it. Live with it and stop whining about it. Your right to whine ended when you agreed to put the union on the property. From that point on, the union is the hired gun to negotiate for you. Let's just hope for your sake that your union does a better job than Boros did for A-Rod. If they don't, then treat the union like A-Rod treated Boros and get rid of them.


www.unionfacts.com

 

[bchjetdrvr]

You and KSU must have one of those double ended................................drinking straws that you both share the pink juice from.

Same question to you, B1.9" Many here would like to know where you draw the line on managements behavior? You and KSU seem to condon those activities by your responses. Everything you write seems to imply all is well at FLOPS, that management is the golden child, that the pilots don't have any reason to gripe.

Here's another flat out fair question both of you will dodge. FLOPS pilots salaries - Just fine in your ultimate wisdom? Are they over paid, underpaid or just right for industry standards and job requirements?

You state that the CBA denies any changes to the pilot salaries while in negotations. Yet the company constantly changes SOP guidlines to their advantage and abuse. That's mang for you. They love and hate that these negotations are going on all at the same time. It locks in the salaries but love to f--k over the pilots with changing rules and sop's. Yet they(mang) really know they will lose in the end.

PS- What fantasy land do you live in to think the Feds miracously just come in, observe, catch and punish companies envolved in these activities?

You may now go back to sipping the juice.

 

[ksu_aviator]

PS- Get your facts straight before you open the hole again.

http://www.psychlaws.org/GeneralResources/article12.htm

""Critics say the current system of continuing medical education, or CME, is not enforced rigorously enough to keep doctors up to date. Moreover, they say, doctors are not continually required to demonstrate their competence.
"Everyone assumes that we're regularly tested, and that's just not true. There is more regulation of plumbers in the U.S. than psychiatrists," said Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, a research psychiatrist and president of the Treatment Advocacy Center in Arlington.""

Try getting your facts straight, this is straight from California Regulations:

BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONS CODE
SECTION 2190-2196.5


2190. In order to insure the continuing competence of licensedphysicians and surgeons the Division of Licensing shall adopt andadminister standards for the continuing education of such licensees.The division shall require each licensed physician and surgeon todemonstrate satisfaction of the continuing education requirements atintervals of not less than four nor more than six years.

 

[ksu_aviator]

You and KSU must have one of those double ended................................drinking straws that you both share the pink juice from.

Same question to you, B1.9" Many here would like to know where you draw the line on managements behavior? You and KSU seem to condon those activities by your responses. Everything you write seems to imply all is well at FLOPS, that management is the golden child, that the pilots don't have any reason to gripe.

Here's another flat out fair question both of you will dodge. FLOPS pilots salaries - Just fine in your ultimate wisdom? Are they over paid, underpaid or just right for industry standards and job requirements?

You state that the CBA denies any changes to the pilot salaries while in negotations. Yet the company constantly changes SOP guidlines to their advantage and abuse. That's mang for you. They love and hate that these negotations are going on all at the same time. It locks in the salaries but love to f--k over the pilots with changing rules and sop's. Yet they(mang) really know they will lose in the end.

PS- What fantasy land do you live in to think the Feds miracously just come in, observe, catch and punish companies envolved in these activities?

You may now go back to sipping the juice.

You obviously don't realize it, so I'll let you know...with every post you reaffirm everything negative I said about unions. You also continue to ignore the whole of my posts and focus on the parts you wish to bash. In your mind, unless I drink the union Kool-Aid, I'm a management whore. Call me a Kool-Aid drinker if you want, but the only Kool-Aid drinker here is you.

I'm not at Flight Ops because I never applied because I didn't like what I've heard about that job. Does that answer your question? Yes, Flight Ops needs a union, it is a bad place to work. But you don't care that I said that, and you'll still post your weak and cry baby excuses and make all of the pilot group look bad and continue to reinforce the opions that HR departments like FlexJet have and disqualify anyone you work with from getting a better job. You made your bed, now you have to lie in it.

 

[realityman]

KSU, what's your deal? I've read and re-read bchjetdrvr's posts, and nowhere do I see any crying like a 5-year-old.
He posts some very legitimate problems. Prior to our union becoming so strong at NJA, I too witnessed 'kool-aid' drinking pilots receive passes on things that 'non-kool-aid drinkers' would be fired over.

Absolutely everything he stated is true, including management refusing to negotiate in good faith. How can I be so sure? Because we had almost the exact same thing happening over here prior to 2005.

B19, you're kidding, right? Just send the gripes in to the FAA and everything will be fixed? Yeah. That happens every day. NOT!!! Whistleblowers have been traditionally persecuted by the company they work for, and government response to said whistleblowers can be described as mind-numbingly slow, at best. Maybe you need to do a reality check.

 

[bchjetdrvr]

You obviously don't realize it, so I'll let you know...with every post you reaffirm everything negative I said about unions. Really? So it was the Unions that caused the ********************ty environment at flops for the pilots. (insert sarcasm here -->) Obviously since they have control over all those things. You also continue to ignore the whole of my posts and focus on the parts you wish to bash. In your mind, unless I drink the union Kool-Aid, I'm a management whore. Call me a Kool-Aid drinker if you want, but the only Kool-Aid drinker here is you.

I'm not at Flight Ops because I never applied because I didn't like what I've heard about that job. (Who could blame you. If mang had stepped up in the first place they wouldn't be where they are today) Does that answer your question? (Um -NO You dodged my question from the previous post. What are the 5yr old gripes I posted? Where do you draw the line at Mang behavior? FO pilots paid fairly, treated fairly? Yes, Flight Ops needs a union, it is a bad place to work. (Once again, mangs fault) But you don't care that I said that, and you'll still post your weak and cry baby excuses and make all of the pilot group look bad and continue to reinforce the opions that HR departments like FlexJet have and disqualify anyone you work with from getting a better job. (When the hell did I ever mention HR or Flex??) You made your bed, now you have to lie in it.

He dodges left----he dodges right----he shoots-------ah misses

 

[FLYLOW22]

Absolutely.

"Illegal behavior, pilot duty time abuse" is subjective to your own personal opinion because it needs to be documented. If it's true, then the feds will identify it. Same with the pencil whipping of mx. You think it's true, identify it and report it to the feds. My guess is that it's subjective and there really isn't anything wrong with it.

As long as your 66% chose to be represented, then your union MUST have informed you that it's highly unlikely ANY changes to wages or benefits would be made while a CBA was being negotiated. Get over it and accept it as part of the process. All of you could be looking at another couple of years of it. There is no stalling. It's a classic part of negotiations that the union is looking for unreasonable demands.

You asked for it and you got it. Live with it and stop whining about it. Your right to whine ended when you agreed to put the union on the property. From that point on, the union is the hired gun to negotiate for you. Let's just hope for your sake that your union does a better job than Boros did for A-Rod. If they don't, then treat the union like A-Rod treated Boros and get rid of them.


www.union"facts".com

Regarding the website...

I wouldn't call these Union facts at all. More likely it is a website based on a political adgenda from a Ford and Harrison-type operator.

I could go out and find a website to back up a pro-Union stance. Oh, I dunno... how about www.ibt1108.com. Man, that was hard.

Your site makes broad assumtions that ALL Unions are created equally. They are not... that is a fact. Most are pretty satisfied with the level of leadership and representaion that we have here at NJA. NJA Management agrees.

I'm not sure how your website addresses that fact.
As far as pay and working condidtions being changed DURING negotiations... it's illegal. FLOPS management tried it though. Section 6 Negotiations are about the whole enchilada... not addressing pay only. Citation Shares and Flex management have been able to bribe their pilots to varying degrees with that technique each time NJA pilots raised the bar. It will happen again soon.

Regarding "unrealistic demands" by the Union at the table. You CLEARLY do not understand the process of Section 6.

Regarding your feable attempt at giving FLOPS pilots buyers remorse... No Company EVER gets a Unionized work force that doesn't need/deserve it. The "company" had plenty of chances to make right on taking care of it's employees up until the vote to Unionize was initiated. FLOPS is no innocent angel. Yes, they made their choice and yes, it takes time to get results. In the meantime, the "company" is doing absolutely lousy and profits (if any) will reflect that. So how important is "the fight"? Only the company will be able to tell.... usually the BOD determines how much they are willing the fritter away in a labor dispute.

You CLEARLY do not understand the process of Section 6. Section 6 dictates that each side come to the table with equally unrealistic demands in the hoes that they are widdled down to the core issues through "negotiations". I can assure you that the negotiators working on behalf of the FLOPS pilot group are no more off center with their bagaining position than the Company is. Over time, as each side is affected by each others bargaining efforts, an accord is eventually reached. Hopefully, it is an accord that both sides can live with. Maybe not... that's Section 6.

The bargaining unit that I referenced is made up of 3 differnt entities: The Negotiating Committee, the pilot group, and Strike Prep.

All three take turns influencing the company.

The company bargaining unit is made up of: Ford and Harrison (thug legal council), the company Negotiating Committee and Their version of Baghdad Bob (BS Artist with a pager).

The process is painful to both sides. Owners are caught in the middle. Hostages are taken. Time and profits are forever wasted/lost.

It's a choice that both sides have made.

There is another way but it involves a deeply rooted desire to come to an accord without Section 6; IBB.

FLOPS management isn't mature enough for this approach yet (if ever).

Until a deal is reached, the house is on fire. It MAY be saved at this point... sho knows. While both sides are fighting, however, one thing is certain; nobody is putting out the fire.

 

[fischman]

In the meantime, the "company" is doing absolutely lousy and profits (if any) will reflect that.

I heard FLOPS lost +$90 million last quarter. Consider that NetJets owns 70% of the market share and our worst quarter in history showed a loss of $88 million. I would say that FLOPS is not only losing money, they are HEMORRHAGING cash out of all orifices.

Safe flying over there brothers and sisters. Good luck.

 

[dime line]

I heard FLOPS lost +$90 million last quarter. Consider that NetJets owns 70% of the market share and our worst quarter in history showed a loss of $88 million. I would say that FLOPS is not only losing money, they are HEMORRHAGING cash out of all orifices.

Safe flying over there brothers and sisters. Good luck.

And Where did you "hear" this tidbit of info?