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One List for 9E/XJ/Colgan???

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Andrew_VT said:
Is DOH a stated factor in ALPA merger policy again? I know it wasn't during the US/AW thing but didn't UA have it put back in there since?
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DOH is not in ALPA merger policy, but longevity was added after the AAA/AWA debacle. However, it's only one of several factors to be considered:

- Longevity
- Status and Category
- Career Expectations

However, the policy states that the above list is only some of the things to be considered, and other factors should also be taken into account to arrive at a "fair and equitable" list integration.
 
Not if you use the Delta fair.... guy in the top 1% at Colgan ends up in the top 1% of the merged list !!!!

Just sayin ........


SEVEN said:
Even with a "fair" list of all 3 company's, the majority of Colgan pilots will still be at the bottom of the list when the integration is complete.
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Who says Pinnacle management is going to let us (9E,9L,XJ) merge into one single list? I can see them just keeping Pinnacle separate, while merging Colgan and Mesaba seniority lists. Then, if Mesaba's jets come to the Pinnacle side, the XJ pilots that fly them will too and those pilots will get Pinnacle pay and benefits under our current 1999 contract. This will save the company tons of money because the only pilots getting raises will be the Colgan pilots.

I hope I am wrong, but this is Pinnacle management were talking about. They are going to look at every possible angle to see what the cheapest option is.
 
MACH-TUCK said:
Who says Pinnacle management is going to let us (9E,9L,XJ) merge into one single list? I can see them just keeping Pinnacle separate, while merging Colgan and Mesaba seniority lists. Then, if Mesaba's jets come to the Pinnacle side, the XJ pilots that fly them will too and those pilots will get Pinnacle pay and benefits under our current 1999 contract. This will save the company tons of money because the only pilots getting raises will be the Colgan pilots.

I hope I am wrong, but this is Pinnacle management were talking about. They are going to look at every possible angle to see what the cheapest option is.
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Wow, I'm just not devious enough for this industry...
 
jonjuan said:
Well, as 2 year hires are starting to look at CA at colgan, that sounds about right. Sounds like they'll get the benefit of their quicker growth.
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Mesaba and Colgan will merge lists. Upgrades at Colgan (the ONLY selling point to their employment) willcome to a screeching halt. Hope the new hires at colgan are enjoying their sh-t pay and sh-ttier schedules
 
MACH-TUCK said:
Who says Pinnacle management is going to let us (9E,9L,XJ) merge into one single list?
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Seeing as how 9E operates 2/3rds of the same equipments as XJ and Colgan operates the other 1/3rd, I'd say a single carrier petition has a bit of merit. If that's approved, nothing really management can do to stop it, except MAYBE a lawsuit.
 
So Snap, you've only been a 9E for 3 years? While Seven has certainly approached the facts from a rude, unprofessional, immature and antagonistic point of view, his comments are based in fact. Your company had a rough few years awhile ago and contiuously was rewarded by NWA all the while XJ got screwed. So, from our perspective this was shocking and not something any of us ever dreamed of or certainly wanted.

Now, it is what it is. We move forward as partners and must now realize we all have a common goal. One list, one contract.
 
Last edited:
With a merged list that would require a merged contract. Anyone want to give the best highlights of their contract that they would consider a must include in a joint contract? For me I'd insist on keeping the min day pay and the 150% for picking up open flying rules we have. (doubt they are better at Colgan and I know they aren't at Pinnacle)
 
WMUSIGPI said:
With a merged list that would require a merged contract. Anyone want to give the best highlights of their contract that they would consider a must include in a joint contract? For me I'd insist on keeping the min day pay and the 150% for picking up open flying rules we have. (doubt they are better at Colgan and I know they aren't at Pinnacle)
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Medical insurance. Yeah, that's about all our current contract brings to the table that's positive....
 
WMUSIGPI said:
With a merged list that would require a merged contract. Anyone want to give the best highlights of their contract that they would consider a must include in a joint contract? For me I'd insist on keeping the min day pay and the 150% for picking up open flying rules we have. (doubt they are better at Colgan and I know they aren't at Pinnacle)
Click to expand...

Almost nothing at colgan is better than anywhere else but we do get a 3:45 override on 6 holidays per year
 
WMUSIGPI said:
With a merged list that would require a merged contract. Anyone want to give the best highlights of their contract that they would consider a must include in a joint contract? For me I'd insist on keeping the min day pay and the 150% for picking up open flying rules we have. (doubt they are better at Colgan and I know they aren't at Pinnacle)
Click to expand...

Medical and Dental (probably one of the best in the industry) and vacation slides.
 
silver02ex said:
Medical and Dental (probably one of the best in the industry) and vacation slides.
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Even vacation slide is a little iffy over here. If you're on reserve, why bother? All you're gonna do is uncover more reserve days. I like XJT's where if it touches a trip on the slide, the whole thing is gone. Here, you could slide it 5 days back (or forward) and still wind up losing a day if you're a commuter because you'd have to do 3 legs the day before/after.
 
It's apparent why things have unfolded as they have lately.... Dual qual- well now the "fleet" will be over 1/3 -900's in the same bases. Medical coming up? Well mesaba's bad section of their contract is medical (due to bankruptcy). And ice? I think there are a few fingers to point but the same happened right before Corp bought colgan and has strong similarities to ASA's shelving years back just prior to the skywest purchase.

He who pays has their way- the NMB is still politics. Not to thead drift but mgmt has used 9E's TA1 language for the colgan negotiations and tried to go after 9E's negotiations to try and work towards XJ (medical). XJ has a nice 401k, and other language to be "above average" too. Ironically they become amendable Dec. 2011 and the DL agreement requires the mesaba headquarters to stay intact for 2 years....

Put it all together and you can see why things are the way they are now but predicitng the future is still a crystal ball with no water inside. I think it's stuck on "never compromise savings".
 
higney85 said:
It's apparent why things have unfolded as they have lately.... Dual qual- well now the "fleet" will be over 1/3 -900's in the same bases. Medical coming up? Well mesaba's bad section of their contract is medical (due to bankruptcy). And ice? I think there are a few fingers to point but the same happened right before Corp bought colgan and has strong similarities to ASA's shelving years back just prior to the skywest purchase.

He who pays has their way- the NMB is still politics. Not to thead drift but mgmt has used 9E's TA1 language for the colgan negotiations and tried to go after 9E's negotiations to try and work towards XJ (medical). XJ has a nice 401k, and other language to be "above average" too. Ironically they become amendable Dec. 2011 and the DL agreement requires the mesaba headquarters to stay intact for 2 years....

Put it all together and you can see why things are the way they are now but predicitng the future is still a crystal ball with no water inside. I think it's stuck on "never compromise savings".
Click to expand...


Interesting... to say the least. There are still a lot of ingrediants in this soup that haven't been fully discovered.

One thing is for certain... all three groups must stay galvanized.

V1
 
jkurtfly said:
We do not have a crew base out in SLC yet. There is talk about one if the flying stays up out there but Delta changes the number of departures too much to justify one right now.
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More like the costs before the parking/closing of the Saab bases is too high. Way too many senior Saab captains could bid SLC jet requiring the junior 900 captains now to then have to backfill the Saab for just a few months before they are gone. That would be tons of extra training/type ratings in addition to the moving costs the company would get hit with. Once the Saab bases start to go the odds of SLC jet base go way up.
 
One list is the only answer...

Relitive senority at each company seams as close to fair as we are going to get.

Yes, I agree the the top guy at Colgan will jump ahead a few years but the large growth at Colgan over the next couple years will allow quicker upgrades for everyone.

Date of hire would benefit Mesaba over both Pinnacle and Colgan.

Fences are fine as long as they dont last too long...<2 years otherwise the benefit of our larger combined list will never be seen by most
 
From Trenary's speech in MSP sounds like 2 separate companies. Mesaba/Pinnacle. All Colgan A/C to Mesaba. All jets to PCL. Two separate pilot groups.
 
RJLoser said:
From Trenary's speech in MSP sounds like 2 separate companies. Mesaba/Pinnacle. All Colgan A/C to Mesaba. All jets to PCL. Two separate pilot groups.
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I will stake my career progression on a bet that Pinnacle (cert) will take on all the Mesaba jets, Colgan (cert) will take on any Mesaba turboprops. Mesaba (as far as FAA) will no longer exist... Though the "Colgan cert will be changed to "DBA Mesaba airlines" and that name will live on because of A; the Colgan crash, and B; Colgan already operates both the Q and the Saab, Mesaba's certificate gave up the Saab back in about 1997 or so... it would (as far as the FAA goes) be MUCH easier to send Mesaba Saabs to Colgan than Colgan Q's to Mesaba.....
And as the grand prize, all unions in each company will be "happy" to only go status quo, more likely everyone will take it in the butt one way or another..... lube not included...
 
I think everyone now sees the writing on the wall with Trenary and company. Just like it is now with Pinnacle and Colgan. Have a holding company, refuse to have a single pilot list and whipsaw at will.

All they are doing is moving the cheese and renaming Colgan to Mesaba.

The band is the same and they continue with the same music. Oh, and they will continue to drag any and all pilot contracts out to infinity...
 

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