One List for 9E/XJ/Colgan???

[i fly boxes]

what do you all think about relative seniority? It basically places everyone where they are now? Thoughts?

 

[kellwolf]

Well, as 2 year hires are starting to look at CA at colgan, that sounds about right. Sounds like they'll get the benefit of their quicker growth. Similar scenario between UAL/CAL where a 2005 CAL hire is equivalent to a mid 90s UAL hire simply due to growth/no or negative growth.

I think what he meant was the guy hired at Colgan last week is in the same spot on their seniority list as the guy at Pinnacle that got hired 2 years ago (or the guy at Mesaba that got furloughed already). I don't think our reserve FOs are anywhere NEAR looking at CA......

 

[SplitBar]

what do you all think about relative seniority? It basically places everyone where they are now? Thoughts?

Relative seniority seems mostly fair but it does create windfalls. Lets assume the #1 pilot at Colgan has 8 years. Should he/she be entitled to be in the top few on a combined list and leapfrog over 20+ year XJ/9E pilots and be a top dog 900 Captain? I heard that Fences would also be placed.

 

[snap145]

One FAIR list!!! Let's try to keep this from turning into an East vs West and the Cactus MESS!! No one wants brawls in the crew rooms. It's war.....but lets all be on the same team.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA..now you wanna be friends with all of us???????..dont give me one bit of same team bullcrap from you of all people...I cant tell you how hilarious it is to see you with your foot stuck in your fat mouth after youve done nothing but verbally bash each and every one of my cohoorts from the safety and comfort of your laptop...you will NEVER be a part of this team, bc you care about only one thing...yourself...I wish everyone at XJ good luck, truth is I am probably gonna get screwed by a "relative" integration....but dont pretend for a minute that you wanna be a team player all of a sudden...youve already made your stance with your stupid idiotic disrespectful comments...and now you wanna be a "team player"...dont worry SEVEN...we will figure it out soon enough..then we can talk about being on the same team...

 

[xjgearbtch]

I'd like to see everyone take a deep breath and take a break it's been, what, three days? Let the economic's staff and lawyers (ALPA) who plan this stuff professionally. Have them set out a game plan. All this chest puffing and speculation does no good. This arm chair quarterbacking just divides us.

Clean slate let's move forward with everyone's success in mind.

Respond don't react!!

 

[SEVEN]

.now you wanna be friends with all of us???????.....

No. I don't want to be your friend. I am being forced into this like all of the other pissed off Mesaba Pilots. So, stop being an ahole. Mesaba pilots already know there is a very good chance we're getting F'ed and many with the PIC time are already applying elsewhere. We are hoping and praying for a positive outcome. So, we don't have to be friends, but we should realize that no Mesaba pilot ever dreamed we could/would be bought by Pinnacle. This industry is ruthless and anything can happen. We'll see what the future holds.

 

[xjhawk]

These last two posts-Snap145 you need to calm down. There are hothead name callers at every company and you are one of them. In other words you are no better than the ones you are talking about. xjgearbitch is walking down the right path. We are togther on this and lets move on and if you see or hear someone spouting off about past difficulties pull them aside and tell them to keep their stupid comments to themselves or leave.

Seniority list intergration will be a tough nut to crack. ALPA says date of hire-but what is fair? All I know is that there are a lot of very senior career pilots at Mesaba and Pinnacle who do not want a 5-8 year Colgan guy being placed above them after they have spent 20 years at their respective company. relative seniority seemed to work at Delta but in this case date of hire with fences might be the best solution. I am in the top 1/4 of Mesaba and I would not want to end up any lower and I am sure that is true for everyone.

The one list and one contract needs to be at the front of our fight since that will make us the strongest.

 

[snap145]

These last two posts-Snap145 you need to calm down. There are hothead name callers at every company and you are one of them. In other words you are no better than the ones you are talking about. xjgearbitch is walking down the right path. We are togther on this and lets move on and if you see or hear someone spouting off about past difficulties pull them aside and tell them to keep their stupid comments to themselves or leave.

Seniority list intergration will be a tough nut to crack. ALPA says date of hire-but what is fair? All I know is that there are a lot of very senior career pilots at Mesaba and Pinnacle who do not want a 5-8 year Colgan guy being placed above them after they have spent 20 years at their respective company. relative seniority seemed to work at Delta but in this case date of hire with fences might be the best solution. I am in the top 1/4 of Mesaba and I would not want to end up any lower and I am sure that is true for everyone.

The one list and one contract needs to be at the front of our fight since that will make us the strongest.

really? I need to calm down?? interesting..please go read each and every one of my posts and show me one instance where I instigated a fight or initiated a name calling session with anyone...you are wrong...its just horridly ironic and pretty much clear to everyone that your friend SEVEN is a loud mouth and now ever since the big bad wolf came in and ate up Mesaba...he all of a sudden isnt talking trash anymore...its comical...trust me we are just as displeased about this transaction as you are...and I wish nothinhg but the best to both of us...again read my prior posts...telling me to calm down wont do any good...sorry I dont bite...hes said way too many damaging things to way too many pinnacle pilots for way too long...you guys are senior to us relativley speaking...if we do a relative integration its guys like me who are fairly junior (3 years) in theyre seat who are going to get screwed...

 

[suupah]

There is going to be significant growth at CJC while the list is being figured out. I am pretty sure they will take a snap shot of when the merger actually took place and put all the new hires after that date on the bottom.

As long as nobody loses what they currently have, I think any integration formula will be acceptable.

 

[V1cutsrfun]

There are certainly lessons learned from Mergers Past... USair is pure Cancer while DAL merger went significantly better.

I can say that everybody I have spoken to at Colgan wants to "leapfrog" over anyone else... quite the opposite.

With the growth plans in place for Q's...above the "firm order numbers" a single list merger with a short list like Colgan's conceivably could absorbed over the next 24 months growth... as the length of the combined 9E/XJ/9L sen list would be more then 3 times of length of 9E or XJ's current lists individually. In theory, If all 3 lists were to be combined by relative senority today the lists length would be 2800ish. If 9L were to stop hiring immediatly, recall XJ then move forward with the growth of both fleet plans, there would be an increase in all relative senority by 400-600ish numbers at the bottom of the list.

Let's all just stick together.... no bickering, lest we all need to carry signs together in the future.

V1