Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Once a Air Force Fighter Pilot=Never Cool Again

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
bearcat said:
Thread drift....this is about flying personalities among civi and military.

Scrapdog said it best.....
Click to expand...

Yes, Colonel.

You alone are the arbiter of this great social mess called flightinfo.com -- your service, while misunderstood, is of great value to the internet.
 
So, what I take away from this thread is that the best pilots come from "The Auburn University"!! As a civilian guy, I really enjoy flying with military folks. Wanted to be one myself but, it was not meant to be. Timing can be a bitch.. My take, Embry Riddle is the Air force Academy of the civilian ranks. Never quite developed social skills. Enjoy the ride.....
 
Well said 800- (cept for the Auburn part... ;) I agree- love flying w/ the mil guys bc it's different

Scrap- my standard take on the mil/civ debate is that I don't have any problem with your pride- just don't attempt to take away mine. Your post is alright if that's your thing- but it's prejudicial. A Mil resume doesn't entitle you to anything- you know that some serve better than others- some are true selfless patriots - others took a job and are a drain on taxpayer funds and in it for their own gain. And conversely, there are many good and patriotic people who never were in the military. Your words sound narrowminded toward civilians- and that you ought to get some super-citizenship in the US for your service- and special treatment in the airlines. It's two different worlds brother. Let it go. Serving in the military is as relevant to the airlines as my college football days. It helped make us who we are- but time marches on.
 
Mud Eagle said:
There is one singular place where this argument is true: the Dash 1 flight manual. Other than that, this statement is a nice intra-service rivalry (untrue and incorrect) rumor that keeps getting perpetuated.

This quote, or a variation of it, is in the first chapter of every USAF -1:
Click to expand...

I cannot comment with any kind of certainty with regards to what a -1 does or does not let you do. It's painful enough reading my own NATOPS. I have no desire to read a -1 for fun. I'd rather rip my fingernails off with rusty pliers and soak the bloody stumps in lemon juice.

What I do have experience with is operating on both USN bases and USAF bases as well as participating in USN sponsored exercises and USAF sponsored exercises. I'll take the USN mentality. The USAF seems to find a way to make everything a little more difficult then it needs to be- whether it be checking into the BOQ, an airspace, getting a tee time, dropping a weapon, hooking up with enlisted girls or crossing a dreaded red line on the ramp.
 
Oh-ryan said:
I cannot comment with any kind of certainty with regards to what a -1 does or does not let you do. It's painful enough reading my own NATOPS. I have no desire to read a -1 for fun. I'd rather rip my fingernails off with rusty pliers and soak the bloody stumps in lemon juice.

What I do have experience with is operating on both USN bases and USAF bases as well as participating in USN sponsored exercises and USAF sponsored exercises. I'll take the USN mentality. The USAF seems to find a way to make everything a little more difficult then it needs to be- whether it be checking into the BOQ, an airspace, getting a tee time, dropping a weapon, hooking up with enlisted girls or crossing a dreaded red line on the ramp.
Click to expand...

The red line is funny, but the COL that patrols the flightline and enforces it is even funnier.

COL is the new CAPT in the USAF.

Going back to the Deed next year -- oh joy. Better get my reflective belt drycleaned.

:p
 
Bavarian Chef said:
The red line is funny, but the COL that patrols the flightline and enforces it is even funnier.

COL is the new CAPT in the USAF.

Going back to the Deed next year -- oh joy. Better get my reflective belt drycleaned.

:p
Click to expand...

Chef, I have some spare reflective belts if you need one! We are doing an exercise at McChord this week and the number one rule is everyone has to wear a reflective belt 24/7. It is noon, 80 degrees and sunny and you are at your desk inside....better have it on. Instead of focusing attention to the task at hand, we are stuck in a reflective belt culture now. I say outlaw reflective belts and let nature take its course. If you can't cross the street without getting hit by a car then you should be naturally selected from the herd. Sorry for the thread drift....now back to those awful fighter pilots...that means you Bavarian Chef.
 
Met Chappie James at the Auger Inn at Randolph in the late 60's. As a Brown Bar, I had the stupidity to break into his conversation and introduce myself; he had the class to shake my hand and buy me another beer (I didn't need it). Some things you never forget. They threw away the mold when the war produced the likes of Chappie James and Robin Olds.......RIP.
 
JAKEFAC said:
Met Chappie James at the Auger Inn at Randolph in the late 60's. As a Brown Bar, I had the stupidity to break into his conversation and introduce myself; he had the class to shake my hand and buy me another beer (I didn't need it). Some things you never forget. They threw away the mold when the war produced the likes of Chappie James and Robin Olds.......RIP.
Click to expand...



Yeah...they called themselves..."Black Man and Robin"
 
Mamma said:
Chef, I have some spare reflective belts if you need one! We are doing an exercise at McChord this week and the number one rule is everyone has to wear a reflective belt 24/7. It is noon, 80 degrees and sunny and you are at your desk inside....better have it on. Instead of focusing attention to the task at hand, we are stuck in a reflective belt culture now. I say outlaw reflective belts and let nature take its course. If you can't cross the street without getting hit by a car then you should be naturally selected from the herd. Sorry for the thread drift....now back to those awful fighter pilots...that means you Bavarian Chef.
Click to expand...

Dude, sorry I haven't called you back -- will do next week.

You should see what Andrews is doing in preparation for Swine Season.

We had to send a LT to a 2 plus day conference/symposium on base -- my favorite is the Personnel Distancing Procedures (or whatever they called it). "Now hear this, all Base Personnel must remain 6ft away from all other Base Personnel at all times."

No sheet.

But then we digress again. God forbid we have thread drift on the internet. I am pretty sure the AF internet manual forbids it.
 
Beech Balls said:
that's right...you can keep living in the past.
well, none of us so-called "PC civilian pantywaists" give a damn what the entry speed of a loop in a T-38 is, much less where you got your callsign.
Click to expand...


What the captain means is that he enjoys flying with airmen of diverse backgrounds. While he has found most of his present-day cohorts to be very pleasant and capable, he especially relishes the camaraderie and common bond shared among those who took an oath, donned a uniform and served their country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ1AYVcAS7k
 
This sort of discussion has been going on since the beginning of time. I'm an aviation historian, have been published quite a bit, and have interviewed a lot of aviators with experience pre-dating WW II. They all said/say the same sorts of things, and the same sorts of idiots/tools were flying 70 years ago as are flying now.

WW II likely saw the creation of many more pilot-morons than any other period, simply because the nation had to mass manufacture so many of them in such a short time. And I'm second-to-none in my admiration of what they accomplished.

You're dealing with people. And "people-types" never change.

In twenty years there are going to be threads that talk about how the new guys are idiots compared to those that were flying in 2009. Or that Navy/Air Force/Marine/Coastie guys are uptight compared to the rest of the world.

Regards,
Guinness (who was a much better fighter pilot than the non-hacking girls they're turning out nowadays ;-)
 
My take may be a bit different. I have flown with both civ & mil aviators. All branches represented, educated civilians as well as high school only. I can't really make the same broad generalizations about any one group as I have seen here. In my flying world we tend to get to know people a little better than in the slam, bam, thank you ma'am world of the airline pilot where you may not see the guy again for years. What someone did before getting to our world doesn't seem to matter much and is rarely the topic of conversation. No one would really care what you did in a past incarnation. There is no one trying to teach piloting technique on a trip. Everyone knows there are many ways to skin the same cat. It is a fun job.
 
waveflyer said:
Scrap- my standard take on the mil/civ debate is that I don't have any problem with your pride- just don't attempt to take away mine. Your post is alright if that's your thing- but it's prejudicial. A Mil resume doesn't entitle you to anything- you know that some serve better than others- some are true selfless patriots - others took a job and are a drain on taxpayer funds and in it for their own gain. And conversely, there are many good and patriotic people who never were in the military. Your words sound narrowminded toward civilians- and that you ought to get some super-citizenship in the US for your service- and special treatment in the airlines. It's two different worlds brother. Let it go. Serving in the military is as relevant to the airlines as my college football days. It helped make us who we are- but time marches on.
Click to expand...


I agree with your statement and spent 4 years in the military myself, -just not as a pilot.
 
Scrapdog said:
OK, I'll take a shot - btw, great post Albie. I don't care what kind of airplane you flew or which service you flew it - fighters, heavies, helicopters...Navy, AF, Marine, Army - if you served, we're probably going to have a good trip together. I didn't say always, I said probably. If you're a civilian, you can be a good dude and a good stick as well...and it can also be an enjoyable trip - but it will never be the same as flying with another military guy - and here's why.

Military guys serve in our armed forces because they believe in our country and our ideals. We choose, when we sign the dotted line, to put our lives on the line if so required, i.e. selfless service. There is a common bond - a brotherhood - that lives deep down in us, whether it was as an enlisted guy in the Army or a fighter pilot in the Navy - that we will always share, and that no civilian can ever understand. It's a silent pride thing - I don't think I'm a better pilot or person than any civilian - but I will always have a place in my heart for the love of my country and all that I sacrificed in order to achieve it. Civilians CAN be true patriots as well - but never to the same "aspect" of the military man - especially one that has lost brothers in both training and combat (which I have and many other military folks on this forum have as well).

As far as flying a trip with a military guy - well, I typically enjoy it more simply because we have a common background. There are a bunch of civilian guys I've flown with as well that are a true joy to hang out with and fly a great jet. But for all the civilian guys on here that badmouth military guys because they're "d*cks, dorks, etc"...never forget he served his country honorably and has lost brothers in the line of duty - and that's something you have never experienced.

As a side note, the book "Lone Survivor" does a great job at explaining in detail what I just said.
Click to expand...

Hey buddy,

From your post(s) I'd venture to guess that you serve(d) in a single seat cockpit. You should count that as one of you nine lives because had you been apart of any crew based cockpit or foot soldier fighting organization you would have been shot dead by your own troops.

That reminds me, the first 2 minutes and 20 seconds of this video are dedicated to scrapdog. gee can you figure out which one he is?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J6UgV_ZzJQ&feature=related
 
Last edited:
"i could of gotten F-15's or F-16's but Buffs were my first choice....."

most of the time i have a hoot flying with ex military - whether its joking about having two sets of hats, if you were really slick, two sets of hats and two sets of keys (I know the CPT is here somewhere, he's gotta be, his hat and keys are here, can i take a message?)

or the usual idiosychrasies of military life (Hey Major, How's the plan for the Squadron Easter Egg hunt going? Why don't you brief me this afternoon, you've got ten minutes of my time, make it good. By the way, I want the slides to just jump right out onto me. In the spirit of synchornized multi echelon synergistic planning, also brief me your current stats for Combined Federal Campaign - we gotta win this thing...."
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Scrapdog
OK, I'll take a shot - btw, great post Albie. I don't care what kind of airplane you flew or which service you flew it - fighters, heavies, helicopters...Navy, AF, Marine, Army - if you served, we're probably going to have a good trip together. I didn't say always, I said probably. If you're a civilian, you can be a good dude and a good stick as well...and it can also be an enjoyable trip - but it will never be the same as flying with another military guy - and here's why.

Military guys serve in our armed forces because they believe in our country and our ideals. We choose, when we sign the dotted line, to put our lives on the line if so required, i.e. selfless service. There is a common bond - a brotherhood - that lives deep down in us, whether it was as an enlisted guy in the Army or a fighter pilot in the Navy - that we will always share, and that no civilian can ever understand. It's a silent pride thing - I don't think I'm a better pilot or person than any civilian - but I will always have a place in my heart for the love of my country and all that I sacrificed in order to achieve it. Civilians CAN be true patriots as well - but never to the same "aspect" of the military man - especially one that has lost brothers in both training and combat (which I have and many other military folks on this forum have as well).

As far as flying a trip with a military guy - well, I typically enjoy it more simply because we have a common background. There are a bunch of civilian guys I've flown with as well that are a true joy to hang out with and fly a great jet. But for all the civilian guys on here that badmouth military guys because they're "d*cks, dorks, etc"...never forget he served his country honorably and has lost brothers in the line of duty - and that's something you have never experienced.

As a side note, the book "Lone Survivor" does a great job at explaining in detail what I just said.
Hey buddy,

From your post(s) I'd venture to guess that you serve(d) in a single seat cockpit. You should count that as one of you nine lives because had you been apart of any crew based cockpit or foot soldier fighting organization you would have been shot dead by your own troops.
Click to expand...

You comment, sir, is officially odd. I'd say "idiotic," but I want to give you a chance to defend the whole "you would have been shot dead" comment before passing jugement.

What part of Scrapdog's commentary makes anyone think that he is worthy of fragging...sir?
 
dont feed the troll,he is baiting you.
 
Bavarian Chef said:
While I agree with "most" of what you said, you are idealizing it quite a bit. Many join for college, or to pi$$ off parents (got one of those in my squadron), or because their BAC was higher than their GPA for their first semester of college (met lots of senior enlisted with this problem).
Click to expand...

I never went to college. My BAC stood on it's own merit. However, I heard of a few officers whose GPA was bigger than their dick.
 
Last edited:
Scrapdog said:
OK, I'll take a shot - btw, great post Albie. I don't care what kind of airplane you flew or which service you flew it - fighters, heavies, helicopters...Navy, AF, Marine, Army - if you served, we're probably going to have a good trip together. I didn't say always, I said probably. If you're a civilian, you can be a good dude and a good stick as well...and it can also be an enjoyable trip - but it will never be the same as flying with another military guy - and here's why.

Military guys serve in our armed forces because they believe in our country and our ideals. We choose, when we sign the dotted line, to put our lives on the line if so required, i.e. selfless service. There is a common bond - a brotherhood - that lives deep down in us, whether it was as an enlisted guy in the Army or a fighter pilot in the Navy - that we will always share, and that no civilian can ever understand. It's a silent pride thing - I don't think I'm a better pilot or person than any civilian - but I will always have a place in my heart for the love of my country and all that I sacrificed in order to achieve it. Civilians CAN be true patriots as well - but never to the same "aspect" of the military man - especially one that has lost brothers in both training and combat (which I have and many other military folks on this forum have as well).

As far as flying a trip with a military guy - well, I typically enjoy it more simply because we have a common background. There are a bunch of civilian guys I've flown with as well that are a true joy to hang out with and fly a great jet. But for all the civilian guys on here that badmouth military guys because they're "d*cks, dorks, etc"...never forget he served his country honorably and has lost brothers in the line of duty - and that's something you have never experienced.

As a side note, the book "Lone Survivor" does a great job at explaining in detail what I just said.
Click to expand...

If you replace "civilian with Air Force" and "Military with Army or Marine", your story is just as accurate.
 
jonjuan said:
If you replace "civilian with Air Force" and "Military with Army or Marine", your story is just as accurate.
Click to expand...



Yeah right, If Air Force aviators are the equivalent of civilians, there must never have been an Air Force pilot killed in combat. I guess what you're saying is that only Marine/Navy/Army aviators really sacrifice for their country?


Give us all a break, jacka$$
 
Caveman said:
I never went to college. My BAC stood on it's own merit. However, I heard of a few officers whose GPA was bigger than their dick.
Click to expand...

Did that pi$$ you off for some reason? Wait -- you getting up close and personal with officer's d!cks?

I have met some troops that enlisted after a semester or two in college, in which they either didn't enjoy it (college wasn't for me syndrome), they weren't responsible enough to make it work (hell, I barely was, but then I wanted to be a Navy officer for a long time and what motivated me was my ROTC scholarship, but boy did I tear that first year up anyway) or they didn't have parental units that stressed how important college was (and would be in the future).

Many of course, attended college later on in life.

I really think you missed my point (oh, and it's an observation, nothing more). But I will give you a pass -- you're a Marine after all.

I almost enlisted in the Marines, despite having a 4 yr ROTC scholarship. I was mesmerized by a few recruiters, until that is my father called my cousin (he happened to be a CAPT in charge of officer ascessions or something like that in our city) and had him call off the recruiters.

He really wanted me to go to college first, and whaddyaknow I did. Again, it's just how it worked for me. No one path to the call of service is the right one, nor is it the same.
 
Guys, relaaaaax. I actually though Chef's BAC line was pretty funny. My post was an attempt at a friendly retort. I either missed the mark completely or hit a little too close to home.....

It's all good.
 
StopNTSing said:
If you feel the need to have an f-teen in the middle of your screen name, you may be a dork.

Sorry, that one was just too easy. Thanks for your service to our country. :)
Click to expand...

Ouch...yeah, I guess I asked for that one. I get plenty of humility reminders. My kids are thoroughly unimpressed with my profession, although they do like the part where we get to fly for free.
 
Caveman said:
Guys, relaaaaax. I actually though Chef's BAC line was pretty funny. My post was an attempt at a friendly retort. I either missed the mark completely or hit a little too close to home.....

It's all good.
Click to expand...

I kind of figured so, but then I thought a rumination was in order anyway.
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom