Ok..why does EVERYONE hate MESA?

[flybrowntails]

standup=bendover

 

[tech]

Stand Ups are referred to by most people as the "night shift". I think some pilot groups refer to them as "Stand Ups" in order to argue more money for them by making them out to be something different than regular flying.

I think all of us have done them at one time or another. Any airline that runs 24/7 has to have some. If you didn't have a night shift who would be flying the "red eye" flights?

The additional money wasn't enough for some. If the turn time is too long a hotel room is also required at some airlines.

I think at many companies these flights are just business as usual.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

All the senior guys bid stand up, so they can be home every day

 

[Stifler's Mom]

wtf is a standup overnight?

DY FLTNO DPS-ARS DEPL ARRL BLKT GRNT
TU 4337 ATL-TRI 2140 2255 0115 0805

WE 4297 TRI-ATL 0700 0813 0113

BAP,

Here is probably the best CDO on the ATR at ASA. You leave ATL at 9:40, get to Tri Cities at 10:55, go to the hotel for 8 hours, then take the 7:00 am flight back to ATL in the morning. Go home for 12 hours (ie take a nap, do chores, go to gym etc) then return that night and do it all over again.

It's a great way to be at home during the days for whatever reason.

 

[Doggiepaddle]

They go really senior at Skywest. Some lines have over 85 hours pay on 30 hrs flown. 3 times a week maximum and home every day. And non taxable per diem with no expenses (no meals needed.)

Standup does not equal bendover, I will take the line anytime. Unless you are at an airline with no guaranteed duty pay like Mesa.

 

[tech]

That has got to be some of the worst utilization ever. No wonder some pilot groups are insisting on rooms.

 

[JTrain]

Tech

-You missed the whole point of the last few messages. You do get a hotel room! Like Cappy and the ASA and Skywest guy were saying, standups can be quite desirable. You get a decent night's sleep and get to be home during the daytime.

JTrain

 

[Crizz]

Standup does not equal bendover, I will take the line anytime. Unless you are at an airline with no guaranteed duty pay like Mesa.

Just curious how this works... What is different about "duty pay" at Mesa versus Skywest and others.

 

[jrcpilot]

Icywings2,

I for one will not answer in a rude and immature manner as some here have. Before I begin, why don't you guys that continue to put stupid and inappropriate comments on this forum start acting like the professionals you think you are. If we are to uphold this profession and get it out of its current state then we all need to act like adults and address each other in a more respectful manner.

Now to give you some insight from my perspective Icywings. I have worked for Delta Air Lines for 15 years. I was a ground instructor and just got hired at ExpressJet as an F/O. It wasn't until about 5 years ago that I decided to switch from ground training to actual flying. I have been watching the industry and the pilot situation for about the last 8 years. Here is the big stigma with what is happening with Mesa Airlines.

Mesa Airlines growth is a direct result of its labor contracts and the way the airline is run. They pay very low wages, their quality of life policies are not up to par with other carriers and the benefits are not up to par with most other carriers. Because of this lean management style of running the airline, JO has been succesful in aquiring a lot of contracts with national and major carriers to supplement their route systems.

For the up and coming starving career pilot, it is very tempting to look at an outfit like Mesa airlines and go fly for them. Some of the advantages of their current situation is a lot of growth. That is good for us as pilots cause its more seniority numbers behind us. Because of the growth quicker transition into the left seat for that lucrative PIC Turbine time that Majors like to see. The last advantage is that you probably hold a line quicker and build your time faster.

Now my one disclaimer I throw into this is that other airlines are experiencing good growth too and they offer a much better all around package to a pilot than Mesa. But because of Mesa and their tactics to acquire more and more contracts they force other carriers to compete and they too have to cut into their revenue yield and as a result cut costs to compete. Its a viscous cycle. To cut cost all airlines are going to look at their number one expense which is labor next to fuel. Fuel is out of their control to a certain degree so labor costs become the target.

The X factor to all this is the up and coming pilot. The more pilots that are out there that are willing to work for the low pay and benefits, then the more airlines will continue to suppress the compensation for the profession.

Mesa's growth has been staggering. This is alarming because there does not seem to be an end in sight as to how much lower the wages will go for our profession. The profession is under attack and we, the pilots, are actually contributing to its demise. When a new pilot is looking to break into the career he is willing to do almost anything to get on with an airline. But as soon as he is there and realizes what he is into the tune changes. I for one did not apply at Mesa, or some of the other carriers that really are offering horrible wages. ExpressJets current contract is not great either however their pilot group seems to be standing up for the profession as the Comair Pilots did and other groups. I hope to see a contract there soon that will at least pay a respectable wage to its pilot workforce. When it comes right down to it, pick an airline you will want to work for. Consider the ramifications of accepting a contract thats not sensible, consider your quality of life and the heath of the carrier you will work for.
Consider the comraderie of the pilot group and its unity. Consider how the pilots for the respective airline feel about their airline and how they are treated. Thats usually a good sign as to how happy they are or not. Weed through all the inappropriate comments and venting and listen for the truth. Lots of comments on here that are totally untrue and down right wrong so weed through that.
The AMA which governs how doctors get accredited and the schooling they receive actually influences how the up and coming Doctor applies and acquires his first job after his residency. The pilot profession needs a similar entity to help regulate this and keep it in check. Without an entity like that the race to the bottom will continue. All in all find a flying job you can live with make sure it doesn't negatively impact you first and foremost, and also the profession you are about to embark on. Good luck to you and if you ever need any advice or help feel free to drop me a line.

Respectfully

 

[Humphry]

You know guys, I'd rather make a little money flying for Mesa than no money sitting on my butt. At least you're working towards something better in the future. Mesa for sure is not an end of career goal, but neither is the regional all you Mesa bashers are flying for now. You really need to give these Mesa pilots a break. We're all in this together doing something we all love. We all need to make sacrafices till things open up again. Good luck to everyone!

 

[Icywings2]

Thank you all for your input. This thread has turned out to be quite informative. Please continue to add to it. Remember for all of us POWER is knowledge. We should have a thread like this for each regional out there. If you all want to do that….GREAT. Just PLEEEEEAASSSSEEEE keep it constructive without any flaming. It is not anything personal. We are all just pilots wanting the best for ourselves and families. Hopefully our success doesn't come at the expense of someone else.

jrcpilot- Thank you so much for spelling out the answer I was looking for. I really appreciate you taking so much time to type all of that information.

Humphry - I agree with you. It is a stepping stone for EVERY single one of us. However, if I get lucky and have the choice between two airlines, I would love to know the negative and positive info on both. No matter where I go (assuming I am lucky enough to be able to go anywhere) I won't ever flame anyone of us. We ARE all in this thing together and I agree with jrcpilot that we do have to hold a level of standard or the bottom could fall out in the long run. Then again, flying vs. sitting on my butt reading this board for information all day would be great regardless of who I am flying for.

 

[wscrj]

Finally...

JR, thank you for a refreshing and long overdue change of tone on these threads. Now if we can just make it last...

 

[mckpickle]

You know guys, I'd rather make a little money flying for Mesa than no money sitting on my butt. At least you're working towards something better in the future. Mesa for sure is not an end of career goal, but neither is the regional all you Mesa bashers are flying for now. You really need to give these Mesa pilots a break. We're all in this together doing something we all love. We all need to make sacrafices till things open up again. Good luck to everyone!

Everyone should read this. Memorize it. And when we sit here b1tching about why our lives suck and we don't make squat we can thank attitudes like this.


SHUT UP A$$HOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Skyward]

Originally posted by Humphry

You know guys, I'd rather make a little money flying for Mesa than no money sitting on my butt. At least you're working towards something better in the future. Mesa for sure is not an end of career goal, but neither is the regional all you Mesa bashers are flying for now. You really need to give these Mesa pilots a break. We're all in this together doing something we all love. We all need to make sacrafices till things open up again. Good luck to everyone!

Regionals are more of a career destination now than ever before, and this trend will continue. You are obviously completely ignorant in regards to the airline industry. Contracts like the one Mesa signed hurt us all, you included. Too bad you can’t see that. Why don’t you bring down wages in some other industry, my paycheck is low enough already.

 

[captjim]

You know guys, I'd rather make a little money flying for Mesa than no money sitting on my butt. At least you're working towards something better in the future.

As long as pilots think this way, the profession will be less and less desirable and lucrative. This is attitude is to bad. If you just want to fly, rent a plane, but don't undermine the improvements professional pilots have made to their contracts over the years.