Ok..why does EVERYONE hate MESA?

[Icywings2]

Ok I have seen "Standing up on overnights". Are we making something a little more than it is?

You know what. Does anyone (with Mesa obviously) have a copy of the contract.

It is a shame that I ask a simple question and get so many people flame it and not give me the answers. Ridiculous!

Everyone that complains about people getting hired right into the left seat sound like people that are simply jealous.

I guess the only way to know is to see the contract myself and decide.
If you have the contract or terms, please PM me. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Crizz]

http://www.airlinepilotcontracts.com/Contracts/Contract Proposal.pdf

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Mesa is controlled by greed

What is wrong with Mesa? Johnny Ornstein has caused more harm to the professional pilot career field second only to the terrorists. His desire to own as many high end motorcycles and other materialistic goods clouded his ability to feel any compassion or conscious in creating an airline that pays poorly in both pay and benefits. The pay at Mesa is in line with industry average even though the contract was signed just last year; the worst part is the work rules are horrific. In the prime example, eight days off on reserve is plain terrible. Yes, the Mesa pilot group had to deal with multiple issues and obstacles, but in the end it seems like they caved in to a poor contract in order to maintain growth and accelerate their hopeful transitions to a major carrier. Not many larger carriers are hiring these days with massive furloughs. Surely some of the Mesa pilots have and will continue to move on to better carriers, but operating 90 seat airplanes with low pay and worst work rules must make one wonder how many more large carrier pilot slots will remain in the future? The difference between a typical major airline contract for 90 seat aircraft and that of Mesa's is immense and disheartening. Also because Mesa operates so many different types of aircraft, their operating cost are higher creating less available capital for pay. Ultimately, Ornstein is scum and until he leaves, don't expect quality of life to improve at that carrier, unless the Mesa pilot group in the future changes its priorities and strategy.

 

[climbhappy]

Arn't all businesses controlled by greed?

Show me one that isn't and I'll show you United Way

What about Pinnacle and their low pay?

What about ACA taking cuts to fly airbus jets in the near future to survive.

What about US air mainline, whom due to RJs is about to go under.

What about Shuttle America and Colgan, who both fly yesterday's airplanes into tomorrow?

It ain't just Mesa!

 

[shamrock]

What about US air mainline, whom due to RJs is about to go under.

Huh?

 

[blzr]

Hey Icyhot, or Icywings, I can't remember. Have you ever heard of a STANDUP overnight, not standing up on an overnight. Anyway, if you go to work there, you get what you get.

 

[BrokeAssPilot]

wtf is a standup overnight?

 

[climbhappy]

shamrock,

i admit i might be reaching with that one, but I base it on this. The huge numbers of RJs put in serivce during the late 90s and up to now by competitors, while their scope allowed up to 36 then 72. Until the bankruptsy plan that started the PSa thing and mid atlantic, they had no plan.

too little too late. Also, even Mesa by exploiting them causes the airline to farm out more flying. Passengers are already bailing. even some of the Rjs I've riddden are always half empty coming out of charlotte, pit and philly

When southwest comes to Philly, I would argue that they won't be around for long. If they survive, they'll be one of the greatest turnaround stories in airline history.

 

[Cappy]

wtf is a standup overnight?

A "standup" overnight may also be refered to as a CDO or Continuous Duty Overnight. It works like this...without getting into all the FAR lingo you can be scheduled for 16hrs continuous duty...right? Soooooo in order to save on hotel rooms (one for the inbound crew at night and one for the outbound in the morning) the company and union reps build lines of "standups".

You might see it like this...your report time at IAD is 2000 and you fly to DTW. You have no scheduled rest(remember you're on duty for 16hrs) BUT you get a hotel room anyway and show the next morning at 0630 for an 0715 departure getting into IAD at 0845. Add in your 15 minutes after block-in and you have been on duty for a grand total of 13 hours.

At ACA they are quite desireable due to the pay and hours worked. You get paid half of scheduled or actual duty, whichever is greater and per-diem for the duty as well. I'm sure it's similar at most other regionals but I don't know that for a fact.

They are desireable if you want a full-time paycheck for what you might call part-time work hours. Like I said, they are fairly popular at ACA. We used to have a great DTW standup that was good for 15hrs 58 minutes scheduled duty...8hrs pay for not much work.


See ya.

Mike

 

[MetroSheriff]

I think I need to just join Air Inc, to get a straight answer. bummer

No that is funny.

 

[flybrowntails]

standup=bendover

 

[tech]

Stand Ups are referred to by most people as the "night shift". I think some pilot groups refer to them as "Stand Ups" in order to argue more money for them by making them out to be something different than regular flying.

I think all of us have done them at one time or another. Any airline that runs 24/7 has to have some. If you didn't have a night shift who would be flying the "red eye" flights?

The additional money wasn't enough for some. If the turn time is too long a hotel room is also required at some airlines.

I think at many companies these flights are just business as usual.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

All the senior guys bid stand up, so they can be home every day

 

[Stifler's Mom]

wtf is a standup overnight?

DY FLTNO DPS-ARS DEPL ARRL BLKT GRNT
TU 4337 ATL-TRI 2140 2255 0115 0805

WE 4297 TRI-ATL 0700 0813 0113

BAP,

Here is probably the best CDO on the ATR at ASA. You leave ATL at 9:40, get to Tri Cities at 10:55, go to the hotel for 8 hours, then take the 7:00 am flight back to ATL in the morning. Go home for 12 hours (ie take a nap, do chores, go to gym etc) then return that night and do it all over again.

It's a great way to be at home during the days for whatever reason.

 

[Doggiepaddle]

They go really senior at Skywest. Some lines have over 85 hours pay on 30 hrs flown. 3 times a week maximum and home every day. And non taxable per diem with no expenses (no meals needed.)

Standup does not equal bendover, I will take the line anytime. Unless you are at an airline with no guaranteed duty pay like Mesa.

 

[tech]

That has got to be some of the worst utilization ever. No wonder some pilot groups are insisting on rooms.

 

[JTrain]

Tech

-You missed the whole point of the last few messages. You do get a hotel room! Like Cappy and the ASA and Skywest guy were saying, standups can be quite desirable. You get a decent night's sleep and get to be home during the daytime.

JTrain

 

[Crizz]

Standup does not equal bendover, I will take the line anytime. Unless you are at an airline with no guaranteed duty pay like Mesa.

Just curious how this works... What is different about "duty pay" at Mesa versus Skywest and others.

 

[jrcpilot]

Icywings2,

I for one will not answer in a rude and immature manner as some here have. Before I begin, why don't you guys that continue to put stupid and inappropriate comments on this forum start acting like the professionals you think you are. If we are to uphold this profession and get it out of its current state then we all need to act like adults and address each other in a more respectful manner.

Now to give you some insight from my perspective Icywings. I have worked for Delta Air Lines for 15 years. I was a ground instructor and just got hired at ExpressJet as an F/O. It wasn't until about 5 years ago that I decided to switch from ground training to actual flying. I have been watching the industry and the pilot situation for about the last 8 years. Here is the big stigma with what is happening with Mesa Airlines.

Mesa Airlines growth is a direct result of its labor contracts and the way the airline is run. They pay very low wages, their quality of life policies are not up to par with other carriers and the benefits are not up to par with most other carriers. Because of this lean management style of running the airline, JO has been succesful in aquiring a lot of contracts with national and major carriers to supplement their route systems.

For the up and coming starving career pilot, it is very tempting to look at an outfit like Mesa airlines and go fly for them. Some of the advantages of their current situation is a lot of growth. That is good for us as pilots cause its more seniority numbers behind us. Because of the growth quicker transition into the left seat for that lucrative PIC Turbine time that Majors like to see. The last advantage is that you probably hold a line quicker and build your time faster.

Now my one disclaimer I throw into this is that other airlines are experiencing good growth too and they offer a much better all around package to a pilot than Mesa. But because of Mesa and their tactics to acquire more and more contracts they force other carriers to compete and they too have to cut into their revenue yield and as a result cut costs to compete. Its a viscous cycle. To cut cost all airlines are going to look at their number one expense which is labor next to fuel. Fuel is out of their control to a certain degree so labor costs become the target.

The X factor to all this is the up and coming pilot. The more pilots that are out there that are willing to work for the low pay and benefits, then the more airlines will continue to suppress the compensation for the profession.

Mesa's growth has been staggering. This is alarming because there does not seem to be an end in sight as to how much lower the wages will go for our profession. The profession is under attack and we, the pilots, are actually contributing to its demise. When a new pilot is looking to break into the career he is willing to do almost anything to get on with an airline. But as soon as he is there and realizes what he is into the tune changes. I for one did not apply at Mesa, or some of the other carriers that really are offering horrible wages. ExpressJets current contract is not great either however their pilot group seems to be standing up for the profession as the Comair Pilots did and other groups. I hope to see a contract there soon that will at least pay a respectable wage to its pilot workforce. When it comes right down to it, pick an airline you will want to work for. Consider the ramifications of accepting a contract thats not sensible, consider your quality of life and the heath of the carrier you will work for.
Consider the comraderie of the pilot group and its unity. Consider how the pilots for the respective airline feel about their airline and how they are treated. Thats usually a good sign as to how happy they are or not. Weed through all the inappropriate comments and venting and listen for the truth. Lots of comments on here that are totally untrue and down right wrong so weed through that.
The AMA which governs how doctors get accredited and the schooling they receive actually influences how the up and coming Doctor applies and acquires his first job after his residency. The pilot profession needs a similar entity to help regulate this and keep it in check. Without an entity like that the race to the bottom will continue. All in all find a flying job you can live with make sure it doesn't negatively impact you first and foremost, and also the profession you are about to embark on. Good luck to you and if you ever need any advice or help feel free to drop me a line.

Respectfully

 

[Humphry]

You know guys, I'd rather make a little money flying for Mesa than no money sitting on my butt. At least you're working towards something better in the future. Mesa for sure is not an end of career goal, but neither is the regional all you Mesa bashers are flying for now. You really need to give these Mesa pilots a break. We're all in this together doing something we all love. We all need to make sacrafices till things open up again. Good luck to everyone!