OK, who's got the gouge and the guts...

[Timebuilder]

Thanks, but I still have these questions:

>>What have you learned about upgrades?
How is the lifestyle?
Are pilots treated equally, based on expereince, or is there a culture of racial and gender preferences?
How would you describe the corporate culture?
Was WalMart your first choice, or a fallback position because your first choice was no longer hiring?

I'm a little curious about this:

We certainly took a very diverse group of individuals and brought them in to the interview. After the interview process we hired the best qualified individual.

Isn't it the usual method to bring in the best qualified individuals for the interview, and hire from there, choosing the pilots based on their ability? To the best of my knowlege, this is what Dr. King was saying on my 13 inch black and white televison in 1963.

 

[passion4flying]

Timebuilder,

I think you need to spend more time away from your computer. I did try to answer your questions to the best of my ability. I am beginning to think you just like to stir up trouble. Let me try again. First was upgrades. I do believe I said that nobody knows because it depends on a wide variety of issues. I can not say it plainer than that. Second culture of race. I again said that we hired for the best individual. Yes brought in a cross section of people to satisfy the sue happy discrimination hollering fools (don't be one). But we did hire based on ability and experience. I believe I have allready said these things. Third was culture, wal-mart is a company that believes in spending money wisely. They do not waste money on 40 million dollar airplanes when a 4 million dollar airplane will do. Their is alot to our culture, it is based on 3 different principals. Respect for the individual, Service to our Costumers and Strive for excellence. Those are the 3 basic beliefs of the company. They do really try to follow those beliefs. We have a management team in place that is trying their hardest to do just that. Next question was first choice or fall-back. I was flying freight in some very old airplanes. Wal-mart offered me a job flying a learjet and I took it. Simple as that. You really need to look at the economy out there. Why would you ask a question like that. With alot of pilots out of work, everybody is happy as a clam to be here. Of course we might loose some people if the airlines are hiring and that is normal. Different pilots have different goals.

Again timebuilder, I don't see a question in your last statement. All I see is someone trying to stir up trouble. Wal-mart is not for everyone, but we fly airplanes and get paid to do so. If people do not like that, they can go somewhere else. I don't mean to jump you so, but I don't see alot of constructive questions in your posts. If you have some agenda, maybe you should let us all know what that is.

Passion

 

[Timebuilder]

First was upgrades. I do believe I said that nobody knows because it depends on a wide variety of issues. I can not say it plainer than that

I'll make it simple. Regarding the last person to upgrade, how long did it take? Was it generally agreed that this was the next person in line, or was another method used to determine the upgrade?

Their is alot to our culture, it is based on 3 different principals.

Good. This is the first answer I have received to this question in 16 months. Thank you.

Why would you ask a question like that. With alot of pilots out of work, everybody is happy as a clam to be here. Of course we might loose some people if the airlines are hiring and that is normal. Different pilots have different goals.

Why would I ask? Probably BECAUSE of the current state of aviation. I'm curious if the people who work in the flight departemt wanted this job barring all others, excluding an airline job. I'd like to know if this is the kind of position that people aspire to because it is their corporate dream job, or because they didn't get hired by Coca Cola. I thought it was relevant. Nothing personal.

Again timebuilder, I don't see a question in your last statement.

It's not a question, just a reaction to your explanation of the hiring process. You said the first step was to bring in diverse individuals, then to hire the best qualified. In my fifty years, I was always told that in oder for equality to be served, you bring in the best qualified people without regard to race, religion, or national origin. I grew up during the civil rights movement, and my family was the first in our area to make cub scouting a reality for a poor black kid from our "poor section" of town. I'm not looking for trouble at all. I DO believe that if someone is going to engage in discrimination, no matter how good the intention, they should be up front about it to prospective employees. I think a lot of needless paper could be saved if folks know whether or not they would be treated equally, or seen as a libility to a diversity program that mandates that only diverse individuals will be brought in for an interview.

I think that's only fair, but I have seen a lot of fairness falling by the wayside over the past several years in order to have a workforce that contains the right mix of politically correct faces.

I hope that isn't the case with WalMart.

 

[passion4flying]

Timebuilder,

Look, I have tried as honestly as I can to let the public know what goes on here. I don't know what else to tell you. I gave you an example as to how we handle racial diversity in our hiring process. I tried to tell you there is no way of knowing upgrade times. The last people that upgraded were here 3 years. But that doesn't tell you anything because we didn't upgrade for 2 years prior to that. And the upgrading was done very quickly before that because of a booming economy and a higher turn-over rate. There is absolutely no rhyme or reason to how often we get upgrades. It depends on a wide variety of factors. If you are looking for a department that does everything perfectly like racial diversity and hiring and upgrading, I do not think you will ever find it. You just have to take the bad with the good. And hopefully the good outways the bad. I promise you that no deparment will ever do things perfect, because we have 80 pilots plus management who have their own idea of what is perfect. Well, me goal has been to inform people. I hope I have done that. Happy flying all.

Passion

 

[Timebuilder]

I would never expect perfect.

I have a reasonable expectation of at least an attempt to be fair.

Now, since passion has completed his mission, did anyone who has been recently hired at WalMart applied there because they were your first choice?

What are pilots saying there? Do they feel they are being treated fairly, or do they feel that non-flying related standards are being used in the management of the pilot group?

Thanks in advance.

 

[p.b.]

We do try to have a diverse group of pilots, but not at the expense of safety. This is the way we did our hiring process. We certainly took a very diverse group of individuals and brought them in to the interview. After the interview process we hired the best qualified individual. I do not have the exact stats on the new hires, since I was not on the hiring committee and I have met only 2 or 3 of the individuals. At the interview, it really does not matter what gender, race, background or any other diverse qualification. What matters is the person qualified and can do the job, and can that person fit into this unique organization. Doesn't matter if you have 2000TT or 10000TT.

This sounds to me like, "we interviewed a good cross-section of minorities, but in the end, for safety, we hired 10 white guys". I could be 100% wrong since I know next to nothing about the corporate culture at Walmart, but the vague and round-about answers you give are just as bad as not replying at all!

Now I am curious about this upgrade thing. This may or may not be what timebuilder is asking, but here's a try. -

Are pilots upgraded in the order in which they join the company, or are there inside tracks and personal agendas which affect the upgrade process?

Please don't answer that question with your "there's no way to know what will happen" speech, if you don't want to answer just don't reply.

Thank you in advance.

 

[banned username 2]

Timebuilder,

How many job offers have you had with all your lear jet time? You seem to be in a position to pick choose and refuse. Or do you just have a personal hang-up about Wal-Mart?

I don't think anyone with 1,632 hours TT is in a position to "Pick, Choose and Refuse" any job offers. I think Timebuilder realizes that if he gets a job offer he'd best grab it quick... This is a buyers market right now.

 

[Timebuilder]

I agree.

I have a problem, if you want to call it that, with the general unwillingness of pilots at the company to share much information about the operations or the management style. I'd like to know if a company is not interested in hiring another white male. If they are not, then they can save everyone a lot of time and trouble by owning up to it.

Other than that, I am perplexed at the lack of clear information which is readily available from other pilots at places like airnet, netjets, flight options, etc, but for some reason not available without a lot of home dentistry in the case of WalMart.

I am not able to pick and choose. Although I have a fair amount of expereince in the aircraft, I do not meet the TT requirement. If I had been able to find out that there WAS a TT requirement BEFORE I applied, then I would have waited until I met the requirement. Unfortunately, no one was forthcoming with the information until after the deadline for resumes in May.

Knowlege is power, and there sure is a lack of power in this discussion.

How sad.

 

[NJA Capt]

I have a problem...with the general unwillingness of pilots at the company to share much information.

The fact that noone is talking speaks volumes.

If you want first hand info, go to your local FBO and "talk" to the Walmart pilots. Perhaps they have a company policy against providing info on websites.

 

[JimNtexas]

--How many people were brought on board?

--What were their ages?

--What were the numbers, by gender?

--How many had prior military flying experience?

--How many had prior corporate flying experience?

--How many had experience in Lears?

Gee whiz, you are asking for a whole lot of very specific HR information. I don't blame you for asking, but you should not be disappointed if pilots from Walmart (or any other company) are not able to provide that level of detail on a message board.

I don't know anything about working for Walmart, but at every company I've ever worked at it would be a big no-no for a line employee to go public with a lot of detailed HR information related to who is and isn't hired.

There is a large and growing pack of lawyers who are full time dedicated to the sole purpose of sueing Walmart for anything and everything. Walmart people need to be extra careful about speaking for their company out of channels.

We should be very grateful that some of the Walmart pilots were able to post at all.

 

[banned username 2]

I don't think anyone with 1,632 hours TT is in a position to "Pick, Choose and Refuse" any job offers. I think Timebuilder realizes that if he gets a job offer he'd best grab it quick... This is a buyers market right now.

Rubbernekk,

I didn't mean this as a slam against Timebuilder, I was saying that I think you are assuming that he is in a position to pick and choose, which he is not, certainly not in this job market.

 

[Timebuilder]

Gee whiz, you are asking for a whole lot of very specific HR information. I don't blame you for asking, but you should not be disappointed if pilots from Walmart (or any other company) are not able to provide that level of detail on a message board.

I don't think we'll get our wish list of info, but going back to the post from a few months ago, this is what I would have said to help out my fellow pilots, were I an employee who was looking to get some resumes in to my HR deprtment:

" Hi there, folks. I work for WalMart, and we are looking for pilots to interview. We have lots of white male pilots and some PO'd minorities who like to sue us, so we have a problem. We need to interview a bunch of non-white men and some women to indemnify us against future lawsuits. You need 2,000 TT as a minimum. Lear experience is helpful, but if you are a minority female, we will go to great lengths to get you a job here. We've been going through chief pilots as if we were Coca Cola, and people have quit in disgust. Of course, everyone can send in a resume, but we won't interview you without 2,000 TT, and we are looking to hire some qualified minorities."

Then, I'd go on with the happy face stuff about being home a lot, how nice it is in Arkansas, and what a great company it is to work for, etc.

Now, to be truthful, I might not have been quite this blunt, but I would have been honest about what was the company's interest, and the kind of employee that best fit "our" needs.

This isn't an indictment of WalMart. I have worked for a company with 800 stores who hired a a very large percentage of entry level retail workers, and I have seen the litigious nature, along with the high incidence of theft and personal problems, including harassment, threats, and a bunch of other nonsense. It's hard to run a large company where most of your employees are not "professionals", in the conventional sense of the word.

This isn't based on any particular info, but I have friends who are involved with several corporate positions, and I know some important managers at several companies through the voice over work I have done for them. The "lawsuit lottery" is a big game in town, and the average person is always more of the "loser" than the company that is being sued.

I just think it's a shame that no one is willing to speak up and correct the rumors with a good dose of recent facts.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

OK...

maybe the story should read:

- Large comapnies LIKE to try and make thier pilot groups look more diverse, it just makes sense today. YES, women and minorities have an upper hand when it comes to securing interviews etc.... Thats been the nature for years now, do yourself a favor....GET OVER IT.

Fighting the system will just make you bitter, which you will not be able to hide at YOUR next interview!

and please...like ANY company is going to share thier HR and Hiring info with you!

 

[Timebuilder]

Maybe.

I persoanlly don't care if it shows at an interview. This is for a very novel reason: I want to be hired, after being equally qualified, for nothing more than the content of my character, just as was promised by the civil rights movement and the "women's movement".

Anything else is still discrimination, and should be opposed just as vigiliantly as any other kind.

If it is not, it discredits the entire idea of equality, and replaces it with acceptable discrimination.

So, if you want to discriminate, have the courtesy and the guts to say so, and I'll save you the fax paper.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Sure I like your points, they are, however, very irrelevent.

Just gotta play the game by the existing rules! Thats all you can do.

And Please, to think you have anything going against you in corporate aviation by being a white male (my guess..) is just plain crazy. White Males make up 99.9% of corp aviation, far more than the airlines.

Keep in mind, they know your name, age, etc when you get the interview (resume). Its not your gender or race that gets you the JOB, its your personality.

All I can suggest is let it go, adapt, and move on with a smile!

then again, I was never too good at advice!