Of airplanes running off the runway....

[100LL... Again!]

The fast movement occurred several years ago, as we all know, and the problems will take some years to fully show themselves

I really don't care if you can see the truth or not. Someone asked, I told them. If you don't want to open your eyes, don't.

As to my personal skill level, I would like to know how you are aware of this.

I guess it was just a weak attempt at a put down. Please try harder next time. I didn't comment on YOUR skills, but anyone with that much insecurity must have something to hide??

On a happier note, I am pleased that you find flying so difficult and challenging.

I guess every flight for you is a leap through the jaws of death, pregnant with opportunity for danger.

Snug up your silk scarf, the Red Baron awaits.

 

[belchfire]

"Snug up your silk scarf, the Red Baron awaits."

100 LL...

Yours is the superior putdown!!!
LMFAO

 

[minrest]

100LL .... I didn't comment on YOUR skills, but anyone with that much insecurity must have something to hide??

You commented on every pilot's skill when you stated, "The quality of pilots is diminishing due to a lowering of standards."

How have the standards been lowered and if they have been lowered what makes your standards so much higher. Does your pilot's licence have a Gold Star or Smiley Face stuck to it?

As for you comment, "I am pleased that you find flying so difficult and challenging.I guess every flight for you is a leap through the jaws of death, pregnant with opportunity for danger." Nothing could be further from the truth. The majority of flights are routine and mundane. This is to be expected as the crews that I fly with have been properly trained and held to exacting standards. They are professional pilots.

-minrest

 

[BoilerUP]

The fast movement occurred several years ago, as we all know, and the problems will take some years to fully show themselves

Yeah, because we all know pilots who have been captains for 2+ years don't know anything about flying or their airplane's operation

I may be new to this industry, but a comment like this deserves a WTF OVER?

So may I assume all those low-time military guys who became captains at Jetblue or Airtran after 18 months with less than 4000TT will have the same problems? Or will the fact they fly "real" airplanes negate that fact?

The logic in this thread is mind-boggling, it really is. Accidents are going to happen after thousands of hours of command experience, but not right after the "quick movement". Ummm hmmmmm.....

 

[100LL... Again!]

Point #1

Flying is relatively easy, after you do it for a while.

Point #2

The SYSTEM is fairly safe, given the way it is currently set up.

Therefore:

It is often only when unusual circumstances present themselevs that incidents occur. One way to measure someone's fitness for their job (especially flying) is to note how proactive they are in preparing for the unexpected and unusual. A very large number of pilots do not look any further than the company trainng program and ATP PTS to determine their skill level. There is one exception, in that often consult their own ego, which reassures them that they're really kickin a$$ at this here flyin' thing.

Anyway, Case in point: Look at the PFTers who proclaim that they are every bit as good as a pilot with much greater experience. What does EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM point to? Their training and checkride.

The training program is the beginning of your knowledge, not the end of it.

So some monkey can pass a checkride. Big deal. The ride measures only a handful of skills, and a few judgement scenarios, and the pilot is expecting KNOWN emergencies.

To address the above post:
Why don't these incidents happen all at once after fast advancement? Because these pilots CAN fly okay, so it may take some length of time before they are exposed to a situation that exceeds their skills and knowledge. This may take years. But be sure, their attitude will reveal them sooner or later.

Take the recent example of the crew landing at the air force base.

I know quite a few pilots I could see making that mistake. I also know quite a few that I am certain would never make that mistake. Then, there are many where you just never know. want to do everything I can to be in the group that never would. Therefore I spend a lot of extra time reading, studying and learning. I don't have as much time to "b*tch about the contract" as some others do.

My first and most important job is to ensure that I am truly worthy of the pay and responsibility that so many feel they are entitled simply because their company ID says 'pilot'.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Boilerup actually proves my point without realizing it.

I never said it had as much to do with flight time as it does with attitude. Flight experience is important, I know this, but you know the old saying about 1 hour repeated 5000 times.

Boilerup talks about military pilots.

Military pilots are not selected because they have passed a lot of checkrides or because they have hundreds of hours. They are selected because of the type of individuals they are. The military needs people who know how to take responsibility and exercise it correctly. They need people who aren't going to make 'getting what they deserve' their #1 priority. Not much room for excuse-making in the military, right? Perform, or be replaced.

Doing the job right comes first, at least among the military pilots I have known.

Now before you get all hot and bothered and accuse me of saying that military pilots are better, I am not.

I am saying that a little bit of this dedication would go a long way to fixing the fast-track mentality that has affected many in our profession.

In my opinion, a passed checkride means nothing more that you are just barely good enough to fly for the airline.

It is up to you to exceed that standard by as large a margin as you will.

Which reminds me of the old joke:

What do you call the guy who finishes last in med school?

Doctor.

 

[BoilerUP]

100LL, if what I said proves your "point", then you have changed what your "point" is throughout this thread. Here's how it started.

Lower TT hiring standards = lower-quality pilots = lower pay = higher accident rate

NONE of these things are mutually exclusive, and none of the first three directly lead to the last one. I would have hoped thinking individuals would have the good common sense to realize this. I think you are smart enough to realize that, and how are talking about "minimum standards".

You say military pilots are more concerned about "doing the job right first". Are you insinuating that a majority of regional pilots (or even a large minority) don't care about doing the job right? Thats certainly what it sounds like.

I agree people need to get out of this "out for #1" mentality, but I don't have any suggestions at the moment - do you? You say a passed checkride only meets minimum standards, and on that point we agree. I am a firm believer that ALL airlines need to have higher standards. There should be NO "train to proficiency" hand-holding that allows substandard pilots to remain employed. Witness the high initial failure rate of Eagle FlushbAAcks. I do disagree, however, that requiring more TT would solve this problem. Sounds too much like the "banning guns would end gun crime" argument.

And you bring up the NWA Ellsworth accident. Its very easy for you and I to say "I'd never do that, I'd be smarter than that", but unless you are in that situation, we really can't comment. Much like the CHQ crew that landed at Elkhart IN instead of SBN. Its easy to cast stones and think we are superior airmen because we've never made a bonehead mistake, yeah right...

And yes, the guy that finishes last in medical school is still called doctor. That joke goes both ways in this argument, and I used it about 25 posts ago.

 

[100LL... Again!]

-----------------------------------------------------------
There should be NO "train to proficiency" hand-holding that allows substandard pilots to remain employed. Witness the high initial failure rate of Eagle FlushbAAcks. I do disagree, however, that requiring more TT would solve this problem. Sounds too much like the "banning guns would end gun crime" argument.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I thought I implied the same thing.


Look at it this way.

Fast movement has a way of getting SOME SOME SOME people to look too far ahead.

When movement is slow, people realize that they will be in the time-building dues-paying phase for a quite a while. So, MANY of them will be more inclined to pay more attention to developing their skills in smaller aircraft.

However, when a regional job can be had at 500-700TT, what point is there to even get a CFII? Fly your tail off and move up.

So the quick 500 hours they get might not provide them with much real development. Hence the "1 hour repeated 500 times".

Some will be dedicated no matter what happens.

Some will fall for the temptation of quick advancement.

Some will advance quickly, but realize that they are advancing before they are truly as skilled as they COULD be.

Some will say, "Hey I'm an airline pilot, so I obviously know all I need to."

It is very annoying to hear an FO who can barely pass an FO PC whining about slow upgrades, right?

THAT is what I mean.

Out.

 

[BoilerUP]

Some will be dedicated no matter what happens.

Some will fall for the temptation of quick advancement.

Some will advance quickly, but realize that they are advancing before they are truly as skilled as they COULD be.

Some will say, "Hey I'm an airline pilot, so I obviously know all I need to."

It is very annoying to hear an FO who can barely pass an FO PC whining about slow upgrades, right?

THAT is what I mean.

I think we are finally on the same page now, and I CERTAINLY agree with this statement.

Tailwinds...